238: Transforming Conflict into Compassionate Collaboration

Show Notes:

In this episode of SLP Coffee Talk, we are joined by Stephanie Sweigart from Golden State of Mind, a renowned expert in mindfulness and compassion-based practices within the realm of  special education. Stephanie brings her wealth of experience as a certified Teacher of Mindfulness Meditation and a seasoned Speech-Language Pathologist. As a featured presenter at the 2023 American Speech-Language-Hearing Association’s national convention, she is also the founder of Golden State Speech Pathology Services, Inc., a woman-owned Non-Public Agency established in 2013.  

Her insights have been showcased on various podcasts such as “Speechie Side Up” and “First Bite” where she delves into her enthusiasm and expertise in holistic professional practices. Her steadfast commitment to empowering individuals through clear and compassionate communication highlights her mission to create a significant impact in the realm of special education. Tune in to learn how to transform conflicts into productive dialogues, master deep listening and empathy and empower yourself with Nonviolent Communication techniques for better workplace harmony as an SLP.

Here's what we learned:

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A: To get to the other slide.

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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00 Hallie: Welcome to SLP Coffee Talk, the podcast designed exclusively for speech language pathologists who work with older students, grades 4 through 12. I am your host, Hallie Sherman, your SLP behind Speech Time Fun, the Speech Retreat Conference, and the SLP Elevate membership. And I'm thrilled to bring you conversations, strategies, and insights that will give you the jolt of inspiration that you need. Whether you're tuning in during your morning commute, on a break in between sessions, or even during a well-deserved relaxation time. I am here for you each and every week. Let's do this SLPs.

00:00:45 Hallie: Hey, hey, and welcome to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. Today I have Stephanie from Golden State of Mind here, and we're gonna be talking all about having tough conversations and dealing with conflict, which I know we might not wanna be thinking about right now, but sometimes we got to. So, Stephanie, welcome to the show. 

00:01:05 Stephanie: Thank you, Hallie. Thank you so much for having me. It's lovely to be here. 

00:01:09 Hallie: Tell everyone listening a little bit more about yourself and how you got into the work you're doing today.

00:01:14 Stephanie: Yeah, sure, no problem. So I am a school-based SLP by trade. I started out in the field in 2006. I spent about five years in the hospitals in the acute care setting. And while I was also school-based, kind of filling in those holidays and summer breaks and trying to get that experience. But then I just kind of moved away from that and stayed in the schools for many years. It's been 17 plus years. I currently own a non-public agency, Golden State Speech Pathology Services. I have a team of amazing SLPs and SLPAs. So I have lots to share about conflict because we're always talking about all of our challenges and conflicts that we have in the workplace.

00:01:52 Stephanie: And I'm also sharing professional development through, as you mentioned, Golden State of Mind PD because I think it's really important that we strengthen our inner resources just as much as we're learning those technical skills that are so important out in our field because when we're showing up, who we are as a person is the professional. So that's a little bit about me. I also wear a mom hat and I'm a mom to an eight-year-old daughter, Luciana. And I don't know if I mentioned that I'm living in Los Angeles, California. I also have a four pound Yorkie, little dog. So I'm from a [unclear] little puppy and just staying busy. 

00:02:30 Hallie: I love it. And that's also something that's so important. The other hats that you have that really can come into play when we're dealing with conflict is like, we don't wanna like exert all of our energy so much at work than when we have to come home and put our other hats on. So talk a little bit about like, just like how to have like a peaceful framework at work so that it's not so heavy all the time. 

00:03:00 Stephanie: Yes, oh my gosh. Not so heavy. I was just talking to somebody yesterday about how it can feel like a snowball, right? And just the more we pack the snow on, the heavier and heavier it feels when we think about conflict and challenges in the workplace. So, you know, when I came out of the field, not to scare, you know, the CFs that are out there and are listening from your audience, but I came out, I had all the technical skills, you know, they pump you up in grad school, at least they did back then. Things are a little bit different now, but with more of the technical knowledge. I know mindfulness is coming into more of the programs now, it's being talked about.

00:03:31 Stephanie: But when I came out of school, I didn't have any of the, I guess, professional development that supported my inner resources. So I came out and I jumped into the school settings and the hospital settings. And I found myself sort of moving around from district to district and working from team to team. And no matter where I went and what I did, there was conflict, there were challenges. There were people that you just don't get along with. There are jobs that you start and you have that one person that comes up to you and says, ooh, watch out, watch out for this person. They're not really a team player. You know, and you're being conditioned and you're already hearing stories about people that are shaping the way you're looking at things or approaching things in the workplace. 

00:04:10 Stephanie: Or you hear about that one advocate, right? That always shows up at the meetings. Oh, watch out for this advocate or this litigious family no matter where I went or what I did, there were conflicts and challenges that were coming up in my collaborations, in my IEP meetings, in basically with my employer that I was working for, you know, you don't see eye to eye. And I realized through the years that conflict, it's not something to avoid. So that's why I talk about all my professional development about how do we transform conflict? How do we transform how we show up in it? Because guess what guys It's here to stay. It's not going anywhere. And like you said, you know, we can wear many different hats, but conflict and challenges are something that's going to show up in each of those roles that we're in. 

00:04:54 Stephanie: So I think it's really important to learn how to be in it, how to surround yourself with it, how to show up in a way that you feel good about. And when I look back on my 26 year old self that was starting out in 2006, you can do the math on my age. But I wasn't handling conflict or these difficult moments in a way that was really serving me. So I found myself getting really frustrated, really emotional, it was this emotional rollercoaster, right? I was bringing it home. I was maybe getting sick. I wasn't feeling well. I was getting stressed out, overwhelmed, burnout. I was leaving jobs. I was going to find out, I was like, this job isn't working anymore. Nope, to these people. Nope, to that. I'm outta here, right? My answer was to flee the scene rather than learn how to be in it, because I wasn't taught how to be in it. I wasn't exposed to strategies that were gonna help support me in those times and help me grow in those times. 

00:05:51 Stephanie: And it's not fair to say, hey, just be comfortable with being uncomfortable and just go in and you're gonna learn how to navigate and how to do the thing. Because I don't think it works that way. I threw myself into all these various situations and I tried to be comfortable in them and I tried to learn and grow just by sitting in it, but sitting in it wasn't enough. I needed to do the work from the inside out and I needed to learn strategies for my tool bag, just like when we're going in and we're attacking the R sound, we're not just gonna go in and try to feel comfortable being uncomfortable with approaching an R sound. We need to have some education on it. And how do we elicit the sound and what are the tips and tricks? Need to come in with that tool bag. So same thing with conflicts and challenges. 

00:06:39 Stephanie: So I was really lucky that I came across a professional and occupational therapist that I was collaborating with at a new job because there I was hopping around from district to district. And I was having a problem and she literally stopped my victim train dead in its tracks and was like Stephanie, stop, take a breath. And in that moment without going too far into that story, everything changed because she introduced me to all of these mindfulness-based strategies, these compassion-based strategies that I hadn't heard about. These teachers and these classes that were out there that I knew nothing about, these books that were going to support me as who I was as a person that I knew nothing about, and I just became so hungry for this knowledge.

00:07:28 Stephanie: because as I started collecting it and reading and learning about nonviolent communication and mindfulness and saw all this research that was growing to support it and I was implementing it, I began to immediately see results. And that to me, the light bulb went on of, I don't need to run to the next job site. I don't need to find a new team to work with. I just need to get my tool bag filled up with strategies so that I can learn how to be with the challenge be with the conflict, be in those hard IEP meetings. I mean, what's challenging for you, Hallie, in your role and your jobs right now? What are the things that are showing up for you? 

00:08:08 Hallie: Well, just thinking about my career, I just remember, and funny that you said like a CF, I remember my CF, there was one teacher who looked at me like a newbie that knew nothing. And I saw that she was making wrong recommendations for one of my students. It was a kid, I was working in a preschool at the time, let's just say, some sensory things were being utilized just all day long, like not sensitive, like, I don't want to even go into too much detail, but I was like, this tool is supposed to be used for this purpose, not for that purpose. I don't want to use the word sensory because that was not the right word, but, and she basically was like, I'm not listening to you. Who are you? You don't know what you're talking about. 

00:08:49 Hallie: And it got very heated. It got very uncomfortable. And I did know what I was talking about. And when I finally went to my CF mentor, she was like, wait, hold on, wait, what's going on? You actually are making the right recommendation. She is actually like, and being okay to like realizing like, it's okay to ask for help. So that was just one situation that like comes right to my mind when you said the CF. But also so many times I've experienced colleagues not agreeing with my recommendations at an IEP meeting. And here I am in front of the parent. I've had colleagues literally say like, and what do you know in front of the parents? And I'm going, actually, I do know. Where is your where is your speech pathology license here? Like I thought I was the one that went to school for this. 

00:09:36 Hallie: So I'm sure people listening can probably relate to some of these scenarios where either a colleague said, like when you're new in the field, like, who are you? I'm not listening to you. Or maybe colleagues saying, I'm not listening to your recommendation. You mentioned I've had advocates and litigious parents where I literally want is hoping that I had a parent, I'll tell this story. I had, I was sitting in a litigate, like a very heated meeting and I was like nine months pregnant, like about to pop with my first. And we had a game plan, like what happens if my water breaks in this middle of this meeting? Cause I'm so stressed out. And we were also like hoping it kind of did so that like, your escape route, you're like, everyone's like, Kelly, can you kind of go into labor in the middle of this meeting so we can just like, table it. I'm like, actually, no. Yes, it just different situation situations like that. I would love to hear you. One, how do you prepare for it beforehand before it even happens? And two, what do you do in these situations?

00:10:38 Stephanie: Yes. Okay, let's normalize all of that except for the water breaking and IEPs. I don't know how normal that is. 

00:10:44 Hallie: It didn't break. 

00:10:45 Stephanie: It didn't break, right? 

00:10:47 Hallie: I had to sit through it, unfortunately. 

00:10:48 Stephanie: Congratulations— 

00:10:49 Hallie: I wasn't even allowed to go to the bathroom. It was really hard. 

00:10:53 Stephanie: So yes, let's normalize. I mean, every example that you gave, when I hear you say that, it all stems down to what I'm hearing, and I could be wrong, as just disagreements. We're not in alignment on the way that we're seeing things for whatever variable. We don't have enough knowledge on what our role is. We don't have enough knowledge on the field, whatever the case may be. We are just, we're in an opposition right now, right? 

00:11:14 Stephanie: And it creates this kind of me versus you. If it's you against the parent, it sounds like you just shared an experience where it was your colleagues. And you're probably thinking in your head, you're supposed to be on my team. And you're throwing me out of here. Hold on a second. Because we do. We get in that mind frame of us versus them when we sit down sometimes at the IEP table of the district and all of us who are representing the district versus the parent and whoever they brought that's sitting with them. 

00:11:42 Stephanie: And that's the mentality that we get in. And I want to normalize that. It's very normal to think that way. But you asked, what can we do prior to going into the meeting? And when I was thinking about, okay, I'm going to sit down with you today and have this conversation. And you sent me the link for, I thought when I first saw the link, it said 30 minutes. And I was like, okay, I need to figure out because there's just so much. There's so much we can do. But how am I going to shrink this down and really give a lot of value to your audience? What's one thing I could really point out in our short time together that can make a big difference later? 

00:12:15 Stephanie: And I was like, it's listening. It's listening. It's literally, I want to talk about the power of listening. And there's a lot of research to support this. So this would be what I would say if for those who are listening, I think it's really important first before we go into any of these meetings. So I'm going to be presuming that when we talk about listening, you've already completed step one and step one is the regulation. You have to regulate yourself to be in any conversation where there's disagreement, where we're not aligning in our way of thinking, or there's conflict, you need to be regulated, okay?

00:12:50 Stephanie: Because if we're not regulated and we're showing up and we're emotional or we got all these thoughts and we got all these stories, we're not gonna be clear in our thinking, we're not gonna be clear in our speech, we're gonna miss things that are being said. Okay, so let's just presume that everybody centers when they're walking into these IP meetings, that they've calmed themselves with breath activities or something, you know, when they heard the advocates in there and it's not going well and your heart's racing when you're walking in, or you're about to do your speech report, you know, it's coming up to you and your hands are getting clammy and you're like, I don't know if I can breathe. And you just, you know, we've all been in those moments, but let's pretend you're regulated, okay?

Part 2 Lei

00:13:32 Stephanie:  The biggest piece next is really listening. I think listening is such a superpower. We have a lot of superpowers in our field, but I think listening is not talked about enough and I think it can be really hard, really truly listening. So I want to talk about what I mean by really truly listening. I think that we need to strengthen our listening skills. So in strengthening our listening skills, this means when I walk in, I'm walking in with the intention that when I listen, I'm open to learning something new. There's something here that I can learn. So now we sit down at the table and say I'm hearing something that I don't like or something that I don't agree with, or someone's trying to say that my goal is not appropriate, right? I get triggered. It happens, we get triggered. Something is said and we're emotionally kind of in this fight, flight, freeze space.

00:14:27 Stephanie:  And we might go into these blocks, right? So someone's talking and they're expressing themselves and they're sharing their thoughts. And now we're blocked because we might be forming our response. We might already be thinking, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not what they said. No, that's not what I said. We're already kind of picking apart what they're saying and we're planning how we're gonna respond to it. So we've got that block. Sometimes we have a block of fear. So we're hearing somebody talk that's disagreeing with us or sharing something, whoever that person might be. And now we're nervous or now we're scared. And maybe it's that fear, right? That we're getting stuck in that fear that we're no longer really listening. Or maybe we're biased. Maybe we have, you know, maybe we're conditioned. Maybe we've been told stories about this person before we walked in and we're thinking, well, they were saying that because we know this about them or we know that about them. All of these things can come in affect our listening. 

00:15:24 Stephanie:  So I would say the first and foremost is to try to stop and say, okay, do I have any blocks while I'm listening, while this person is speaking? What do I notice? Am I stuck in a story? Am I stuck with fear? Am I kind of bored and I just want to get out of here because they've been going on and on forever. And, you know, I've got so many things that I've got to do right now that my planning is kind of taking me away from really listening. So that piece of and connecting with those blocks and giving yourself some kind of coaching to say, I need to come back, I need to come back to listening, right here and right now. So now we've come back, now we're listening, or maybe we didn't have the blocks and we're still there. So that's great, we're listening. Now we're listening to understand and this is what the deep listening really entails. So when I'm listening, I'm no longer getting stuck in the words that they're saying, but I always use the analogy of an onion.

00:16:22 Stephanie:  I'm pulling back the layers of that onion and the layers are the words and I'm dropping beneath. Okay, if you're a musical person, let's drop beneath the notes, let's go beneath the music and see what's really there. What's really there? What is mom really feeling right now? What is advocate really needing right now? What matters? What matters to them? What do they desire? What's important to them? Forget how they're expressing it with their words, whether or not you agree. Can you be in that moment, and this is the empathy piece, can you be in that moment and deeply listen in a way that says, wow, I hear they're really upset. I hear they're really needing more trust from us as a district. I hear that they're really sad over the progress, they're needing more progress with their student. They're needing the best for their child right now, the best educational placement possible. So forget, you know, whether or not they're coming up with an eye contact goal and you don't agree with eye contact goal, drop below that and say, wow, you know, social skills matter to them.

00:17:28 Stephanie:  It's really important. They wanna know that their child is listening. They wanna know that their child is connected, you know, and maybe they're only seeing eye contact as one strategy to do that. And they're not aware, there's other strategies to showing that their child is listening, or attending or connected or growing in our social skills. So that deeper listening gets us away from our judgments, our criticism, our blame, our I'm right, you're wrong, kind of mentality, which is very normal. It's very normal to think that way. We weren't taught growing up how to kind of move past that and really neutrally observe in a way that's gonna show us what they're feeling and what they're needing because here's what's so important. When we show up in this way, when we are listening to people who are sharing with us, something that matters to them, something that's important to them, and we hear it, not saying we agree with it, we hear it, and we recast it back to them, wow, that sounds like that was really hard for you. 

00:18:28 Stephanie:  Wow, that sounds really difficult and challenging what you're going through in the home right now. Or, yes, I hear what you're saying, that your child is showing X, Y, and Z, even if you're not seeing it. You're just relaying what you're hearing them say. There is a moment there. There is a moment that literally changes the trajectory of your meetings. Because when we know, when we are heard, when we're pouring our heart out and someone's not interrupting us, someone's not disputing what we're saying, but they're just saying, I hear you, I see you. I get what that must be like for you. And they're acknowledging my story and my truth. Whoa, we've just like opened the door to a relationship, to more trust, to maybe more vulnerability in that moment. So that is what I would say. I would say, listen to connect to what's going on beneath the words that are being said. This isn't a moment to show up to say, you know, you're wrong, you're right. 

00:19:34 Stephanie:  This is a moment for healing. This is a moment for a family to share their truth for them. So just listen and receive and seek to understand what's going on for them before you're even diving into, okay, well, let me tell you what's going on for me now. Let me tell you what I'm observing and let me tell you what I'm seeing. And here's my concern, I understand this eye contact goal is really important for you. And building social skills is, is something that you want to see for your child. And I get that and I understand that and I value that too. And I know your child and your child right now, eye contact is it's really uncomfortable for them. It's really distracting for them. And I want to support them with their social skills too. So I'm wondering if we can take a look at some other strategies that might be more affirming for your child, what do you think about that? We have the same goal in mind to know that they're listening and that they're attending and that we're supporting their social skills, but let's lay out some other ideas on the table that we have so that I'm considering your needs, you're considering my needs, but we're also considering your child's needs. And let's work together with that approach. That's gonna make a much better meeting. It's gonna make for better relationships, but it had to start with listening. You have to start by really hearing and connecting with that person that you see as your opponent in those difficult conversations. That's where I would start.

00:21:07 Hallie:  I love that. And I love that you gave just practical tips, but also model, like what that can look like. I love that. Can you share how you can apply this to, let's say, okay, I'm trying to think of just different scenarios I see. And I've experienced myself a parent that wants. Five times a week of speech, meanwhile, like you're thinking once or twice is sufficient enough. Like, well, I'm just going to throw some just in a scenario.

00:21:34 Stephanie:  No, that happens a lot. I mean, that that's very common. So we go into these meetings and everybody thinks more speech is the answer. More speech, more speech. And I get it. Like, what do you hear when a parent says to you, I want five times a week for speech. Hallie, what do you hear when the parents saying that? Does anything come to mind?

00:21:51 Hallie:  I mean, I'm hearing that they want. They're not making the progress they anticipated with what they're getting. They expected faster, quicker results they're wanting, and they're thinking more is gonna help get them there.

00:22:04 Stephanie:  Yes, so that's what, yes. So when a parent says to me, I want five times a week for speech, and maybe I'm thinking one or two times, the number is really irrelevant. The point is, is that we're not in alignment in what our recommendations are. So when a parent says to me more speech, and I drop below that, I'm listening and I'm thinking, wow, this parent really just wants support. This parent really just wants the best for their child and wants more progress for their child. The strategy that they think that's gonna meet that need is more speech, but are there other strategies that are also going to help and support their child that isn't necessarily pull out five times a week? So, let's pin it right there because what I want to share real quickly will tie right back to this and maybe some other examples you have. But I learned a process through nonviolent communication. It's very simple. I can say it in a couple of sentences, but Dr. Marshall Rosenberg, he shared through the Center of Nonviolent Communication, a four-step process for thinking, listening, and speaking and this framework I use with all the work that I do and I've been dripping it into what we're talking about today. 

00:23:11 Stephanie:  So I wanna just point it out so that you can start to notice it when we're talking about these conflicts. But the first step is observation. So we are moving away from judgment, criticism, blame and we're just observing. We're not putting our evaluations or our, you know any of that into the mix. We're just observing what is. So we observe. From that observation, we have a feeling, okay? So how am I feeling in this moment? I'm feeling frustrated, I'm feeling upset, I'm feeling angry, I'm feeling hopeful, I'm feeling inspired, right? The third step is needs, okay? So what is my need in this moment? I have a need for autonomy, I have a need for creativity, I have a need for contribution, help, support, understanding, respect, whatever, shelter. There's a lot of needs out there, right? And we learn that our needs are met, or unmet needs are driving our feelings. And then the fourth step is requesting.

00:23:58 Stephanie:  Okay, so now I've seen something, I'm feeling a certain way about it because this need isn't being met, and now I gotta meet that need, so I need to make a request, okay? Observations, feelings, needs, request. That request now, I'm learning how to ask for something that is positive, actionable, and transparent. It's very clear so that I can meet my need. Okay, so we use that framework for speaking, thinking, and listening. So now a parent says to me that they want more speech. I'm observing, okay. I'm observing right now in this moment, free from my evaluation. I wanna offer two times a week, 30 minutes for speech. Parent is asking for five times a week speech. Feeling, okay, I'm feeling a little confused. I'm feeling a little concerned about pulling the child out that much or confused as to why mom's asking for that. I have a need for, what is my need? Okay, my need right now is I need to be able to contribute to this child's education. I want them to make progress. But at the same time, I also want them to not miss classes. All these other things are important, right? And I need understanding from mom right now. Now, if I flip the script and I'm listening to mom, what am I hearing from mom? Mom's asking for five times of speech a week, okay? That's my observation, five times. What is she feeling?

00:25:21 Stephanie:  Maybe she's feeling worried. She's feeling really worried about the progress for her child. She's feeling nervous. She's feeling anxious. You know, we don't have a context here of the actual dialogue that's happened, but you can kind of glean what mom's feeling when she's asking for this. Okay, what is mom's needs? Mom needs help. Mom needs support. Mom needs more progress for her student, right? She needs understanding from us that like, they're not talking. I want them to be able to talk, right? We hear that a lot. I want them to be able to communicate with me. I want them to say, I love you, right? They have a need for more connection with their child. And I think speech is the answer. So we figure out what is the parent's needs. And then comes the request, okay? The interesting piece about needs that Dr. Marshall Rosenberg needles into is we figure out how to move away from strategies and we stick with needs. So if I have a need for progress in speech with my student, there's many strategies to doing that.

00:26:20 Stephanie:  Mom suggesting five times a week speech is just one strategy. We put it on the table. I hear what you're saying. You think that five times a week for speech may meet your need for the progress that you'd like to see your child make, or that will meet your need for more connection with your student. They'll be talking more. That's your thoughts. So we acknowledge it. We give that empathy, okay?

_________________

Part 3 Ashie

00:26:42 Stephanie: Let's look at some other strategies. What are some other strategies? We could train the adults. If maybe the child has a one-on-one or maybe there's an aid in the classroom. Or maybe we can support the teacher more with using an AAC device and core word modeling with the student in the classroom so that they're getting speech all day long, right? We start to think about other ways to meet those needs. So mom is super stuck that five days a week is the answer but that's just a strategy. So we need to connect back to the needs. Because her unmet needs, what's causing her to feel the way she's feeling. And once we can connect back to the unmet need, we can sit at the table when we've had that rapport, because now we've listened and we've opened the table. We've established some trust. There's more openness, more vulnerability. You know, I see you, you see me, I'm with you. It's like, it's not me. It's not you. It's us kind of mentality. 

00:27:39 Stephanie: Let's write down, let's see, what are some other ideas that we think might support your child with having more opportunity to communicate? To communicate with their friends at recess, to communicate with their friends at lunch in the natural environment, to communicate in the classroom with their one-on-one, with their teacher. Speech doesn't just happen in an isolated setting. So let's work together and let's all come up and let's weigh these and see how we feel about these. So it becomes this collaboration now and not just, you know, the 26 year old me who was working in a school district, when I would have saw this, I would have said, no, you know, they need to stay in class. They can't be pulled out of class that much. I don't want them to miss math. I don't want them to fall behind. 

00:28:20 Stephanie: And maybe I was right in saying that. Maybe that was a really good answer at the time. But there wasn't connection with the mom. There wasn't this like, let's have this shared reality of where we are and where we want to go together on this journey, because this is a relationship. And listening is the ticket to building those relationships. We are inside these meetings with human beings and we're all human beings and we're here to really support one another. So the 26 year old me would have been very strong-willed, very, maybe a little inflated in my ego of, listen, like I got the degree, I just came out of school, like I know this is how it is and like we don't want their grades to fall and I'm right and we're not doing this like five days a week, that's not even on the table. No, I stand strong, this is our offer take it or leave it. 

00:29:11 Stephanie: But as I've grown with my professional development, strengthening my inner resources and learning how to build my self-compassion and compassion for others, and my awareness and tuning in to other people's needs and feelings, and seeing that that really supports collaboration, now when we go into those meetings and people are asking for things, even if I'm like, what? You know what, what? That's the internal dialogue, it's natural. It's our habit. But then I can drop back and say, okay, what's your story? What matters to you? What's going on for you? Let's get to the bottom of this. What's going on for me? And how can we meet in the middle and collaborate on this in a respectful, considerate way that honors each other? 

00:30:00 Hallie: I love that. I love that so much that you can say like, I made these mistakes myself, like I've been there. And you share like that by making these shifts, you've been able to have these dialogues and you're not having opponents anymore, you're having partners and these discussions. I love that. What would you say to someone listening that has conflict with administration, bosses, directors, people that are… in charge of them and they're like, whether they're not getting the support they need, they're being told what recommendations to make, whatever the scenario is, I know it's a little bit different when it's parent versus us at an IEP table, but what would you say to, or even just a colleague, but what about a boss, someone with authority? 

00:30:50 Stephanie: Higher ups. 

00:30:51 Hallie: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

00:30:55 Stephanie: So yeah, same rules apply. So higher ups, obviously you've got the power dynamics there. Right? Like you've got the tiers of power. So and it's top down. You'll see that a lot in school districts. It's top down. We are the decision makers. And here's where you're going. This is your school. This is your caseload. This is where you're going to be. And you have very little say in it. And that is something I'm that's one of my missions. My goal is to really help shift that. Right. So it is a more collaborative dynamics when we're in there and we're the ones doing doing the job right that they're telling us to do.

00:31:29 Stephanie: So, you have all different kinds of folks out there that are professionals. You've got ones that are conflict avoidant, that if they're having these power struggles with their higher ups, they're like, yeah, I'm not even gonna go near that. So I'm either just gonna avoid it altogether, or I'm gonna go find another job, or the system here stinks. This is not the place you wanna work for. You've got people who are more passive aggressive. So they're… they're like, okay, yeah, I'll do the work that you're telling me to do, but now maybe over here, I'm like, well, you're gonna give me all this work. Maybe these kids aren't gonna be seen today. All that new referral is gonna have to go to the back burner. And we kind of make our way doing that. You've got the passive people who are the people pleasers. 

00:32:15 Stephanie: So you've got challenges with the higher ups and you've got the passive person who's like, okay, you know, I'll do it and because you know, it's important to you and I want to make friends. I want to keep this job or I'm the new CF and I'm just gonna take it with a smile even though it's not something that you want. And then you've got those conflict confrontational people which is who I was starting out in the field and gets so sprinkled in from time to time. So, you know, you've got those people that when you've got the challenges with the higher ups, you're like, you know what? I'm still gonna say what's on my mind. I'm gonna raise my voice when I do it. I'm coming in strong cause I think I got all the facts and I've got, you know, my case that I've built up to say this is not right and I need X, Y and Z, but I do so in a forceful way. 

00:33:01 Stephanie: And you might be none of those, but those are four conflict response styles that you might approach when you are dealing with higher ups, for example. The concern with this is in each one of those, we're not considering everybody's needs. So I would say in a nutshell, like the conflict, confrontational person is placing their needs over the higher ups needs. Like, no, not gonna do this. Like even though you're telling me I'm not going to that school site, not picking up that extra caseload, I'm burnout, I'm exhausted. You might be completely right and justified in all of that, but maybe you're placing your needs as the priority, like it's my way or the highway. 

00:33:41 Stephanie: And you haven't sat down to at least have that conversation or that discussion to say, all right, let's talk about this. I see that you're giving me this extra school or this extra caseload. What's going on for you? What are your needs? How are you feeling right now? Is there a lack of staff? Did something happen? Are you feeling really frustrated and overwhelmed right now? And you're needing someone to pick up these cases and things are falling out of compliance and you're concerned about that. 

00:34:05 Stephanie: So we're kind of connecting to see like, what are your needs? How are you feeling? Because what you've assigned to me is a strategy to meeting your needs, right? The higher ups have said, you need to pick up this extra school. We've got these extra cases. It's falling behind, go do it. And it's like, I didn't have a say in that, but now I'm bringing that curiosity. Like, well, okay. Her telling me to go do that, or the administrator telling me to go do that is one strategy to getting those needs met. So it's like, well, hold on. Let's bring it to the table because I gotta let you know what's going on for me. I'm overwhelmed, I'm frustrated, I'm losing my mind here. I'm stressed out. I'm needing like more ease. I'm needing more like time in my day, right? 

00:34:45 Stephanie: So you think about all things you're needing and I really wanna help and be of support but can we sit down and kind of come up with some other ideas to support these students? Can we look at maybe other SLPs in the district, their caseload workload balance, if they have extra time, like there's more strategies than just putting it on me. But I need to be able to communicate with the higher ups. I need to connect with them in the same way I was connecting with the parent on the goals or connecting with the teacher who keeps telling me, nope, this time isn't gonna work and I gotta change my schedule again. Are you kidding me right now? 

00:35:19 Stephanie: There's all of these moments where we're gonna need to collaborate with other people and we need to shift our mentality that one way of doing things is the only way to do it. And we need to collaborate on strategies. But in order to collaborate on strategies, we need to meet as people first and connect and get the scoop. What's going on? Like, what's going on right now? I see that you're asking me to do all this. What are you needing? Like, what's going on for you? What are you feeling? Let me share what's up for me and let's strategize. Are there other ways of doing this? So your conflict avoidant person, you know.

00:35:57 Stephanie: Each person, conflict avoidant, passive aggressive, and conflict confrontational, they're prioritizing different needs. They're either prioritizing your needs, the higher ups needs, they're prioritizing their own needs. Maybe the conflict avoidant person is saying like, I prioritize my need for like peace. I don't wanna get caught up in all that. I just know the road that we're gonna go down if this door opens conversationally, and I'm gonna prioritize my peace of mind right now and not even go there.

00:36:25 Stephanie: But I think the more we consider everybody's needs in challenges, in difficulties, in collaboration, in communication, when we're sitting down and having therapy with one student or three students sitting across from us, the more we can consider everybody's needs and try to meet as everybody's needs as possible, this I think brings better outcomes, more productivity, deeper relationships, more meaningful work. It brings us back to our passion on why we're in this field to begin with. So all of that to say, everybody's needs matter. 

00:37:01 Hallie: I love that. Thank you so, so much. This is so helpful. I know so many SLPs listening, brand new CFs that are starting to the field and fearful already of what might come. It's gonna be so, so helpful. Cause we, as said, we are here to make an impact on our students and we wanna just be able to do the best jobs we can do. And this is just unfortunately sometimes part of the job. Is having to have these uncomfortable situations, having to have these uncomfortable conversations, people not agreeing with us. I always say like, don't shoot the messenger. Like it is what it is sometimes. Thank you so, so much. Where can everyone learn more about you and everything you have to offer? 

00:37:39 Stephanie: Absolutely, thank you. I love that, don't shoot the messenger. So I'm Stephanie Michele Sweigart. I am on Instagram at golden.state.slp. You can find my website at goldstateofmindpd.com. And those are the best places to reach me. You can DM me and I would love to connect with you. Thank you, Hallie. Thank you so much for having me. This is, it's my passion. I love sitting and talking about these things and I appreciate you and all that you're doing. I know you are so out there in the field and providing so many resources for people in the profession. So thank you. I know how much time and effort it takes to even put together little reels or all of your little public service announcements, all the things that you're doing. So thank you for your hard work and your efforts and all that you're sharing with our community. We appreciate you so much. 

00:38:31 Hallie: Well, my pleasure. I always end my episodes with a joke because it builds rapport and that's what we are all about. So whether you're using this on a CS and IEP meeting or with your students guides, whatever you want. Why did the kid cross the playground?

00:38:45 Stephanie: To get to the other swing. 

00:38:47 Hallie: Close. To get to the other slide. 

00:38:50 Stephanie: To get to the other slide. Oh, that's cute. Okay. But I'm sure—

00:38:56 Hallie: [unclear] I'll be here all day. Just kidding. All right, until next week, everyone go check out Stephanie, go check out her Instagram, go check everything. She has to offer all her tips, tricks and stuff on her Instagram. And until next week, everyone stay out of trouble.

00:39:16 Hallie: Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. It means the world to me that you're tuning in each and every week and getting the jolt of inspiration you need. You can find all of the links and information mentioned in this episode at my website, speechtimefun.com. Don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss any future episodes. And while you're there, it would mean the world to me. If you would take a few seconds and leave me an honest review. See you next week with another episode full of fun and inspiration from one SLP to another. Have fun guys!