263: Literacy and Neurodivergent Children
Show Notes:
In this episode of SLP Coffee Talk, Hallie sits down with Kim Jenkins, a pediatric speech-language pathologist and the owner of Empowering Speech Services. Kim specializes in supporting Autistic and neurodivergent children through neurodiversity-affirming practices, helping them develop meaningful communication skills. With a passion for literacy, grammar, and vocabulary, she shares her approach to building strengths-based learning experiences that empower children to thrive.
Here's what we learned:
- Sensory regulation as a foundational learning tool, not just a reward.
- Strength-based learning: focusing on what students can do rather than deficits.
- Prioritize rapport and regulation over rigid instruction.
- Flexibility in data collection methods for schools and private settings.
- Time management, mental health, and self-care are essential for longevity in the field.
- Practical advice on balancing data collection, student engagement, and therapy effectiveness.
RESOURCES
Learn more about Kim Jenkins:
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JOKE OF THE WEEK:
Q: How do polar bears make their bed?
A: Sheets of ice and blankets of snow.
Where We Can Connect:
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TRANSCRIPT
000:00:30 Hallie: If you are ready to make this school year, the year that you leave work promptly at the end of the day, plan in an hour or less a week and go into every session confident that your students will grasp the session objectives, then SLP Elevate is just what you need to make this school year a successful one. Either go to slpelevate.com or send me a DM on Instagram with the word club, C-U-L-B, and we can discuss if SLP Elevate is right for you and your students. Now is the time to get your time back. And now is the time to get your students excited to come to speech. SLP Elevate is perfect for you.
00:01:15 Hallie: Welcome to SLP Coffee Talk, the podcast designed exclusively for speech language pathologists who work with older students, grades 4 through 12. I am your host, Hallie Sherman, your SLP behind Speech Time Fun, the Speech Retreat Conference, and the SLP Elevate membership. And I'm thrilled to bring you conversations, strategies, and insights that will give you the jolt of inspiration that you need. Whether you're tuning in during your morning commute, on a break in between sessions, or relaxation time. I am here for you each and every week. Let's do this SLPs.
00:01:56 Hallie: Hey, hey, and welcome to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. Do you have neurodivergent students on your caseload and want to learn some more about how to work with them? I have Kim Jenkins here. Welcome to the show.
00:02:10 Kim: Hey, thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
00:02:13 Hallie: Tell everyone listening a little bit more about you and your SLP journey to what you are doing now with empowering speech and all that fun stuff.
00:02:21 Kim: Yay. So my name is Kim. I'm a pediatric speech language pathologist and I've been practicing for 27 years. Isn't that crazy? I cannot believe it. 27 years. I have worked in all kinds of settings. I worked at the University of Tennessee and I've worked in a deaf school and in the public school system. And now I do private practice and go to children's houses. I'm a solopreneur and I really enjoy it.
00:02:47 Hallie: What made you find your passion with what you were doing now?
00:02:51 Kim: Well, that's a really interesting story. So I'm divorced. And when I was married, my ex-husband always wanted me to start my own business. But it wasn't something that I really wanted to do, because we had kids and it was just not on my radar. Because I worked in the public school, I was able to do that part time. But when I got divorced, I had to find another source of income. And it was just a way to kind of drive that.
00:03:17 Kim: So I continued to work in the public school system and worked full time. And then I started doing this on the side through another solopreneur. And well, she was a solopreneur, but she hired contract SLPs after she was. And she really motivated me to wanna do that because I enjoyed working with her so much. So I got really passionate about seeing children who were autistic and then started seeing kids slowly on the side and after I worked in the school and was able to build up my caseload privately. That's when I left. So I've been doing it ever since.
00:03:52 Hallie: I love it. What advice would you give to someone who's considering diving into the private practice route?
00:03:58 Kim: Oh, wow. That's a great question. So I really got interested in it when I love the flexibility and autonomy of being able to drive my own schedule. And so it all kind of started with Jenna Castor-Casbon's podcast. I would just walk around my neighborhood. And she would talk about it only takes one client to stay on the side. And I was like, well, that I wouldn't be able to do that. And so one client led to two and two clients led to three and just kind of word of mouth. And so I would say just definitely keep your options open and just tell people about what you're doing and the rest kind of falls in place. I've been really fortunate.
00:04:39 Hallie: I love that. What are some of your favorite things like therapy activities or goals to work on? Like what are your favorite types of things to do in your sessions?
00:04:50 Kim: Yes, I love, I love being creative in hands-on materials. So most of my kids are autistic or neurodivergent and I'm really into, I definitely like a good theme, you know, we love a good theme in our field. But some of my favorite materials and companies, I love small businesses. So one of them is Young + Wild and Friedman. I don't know if you've heard of her. She's a small business owner. I believe she's in the Houston, Texas area, but she has sensory kits. And every month, I'm a member of her subscription.
00:05:22 Kim: So every month I get a new sensory kit and it's got homemade kind of play dough in it with different themes. And my kids love that, especially the kids who have sensory needs because it's really regulating for them to be able to play with it. So I really like that. I love working on literacy. I really got into that. I've always loved books, and I've always incorporated those into my sessions. But after I took Elizabeth Doherty's, the reading SLPs, after I took her course, I got even into it even more.
00:05:53 Kim: So I've really been researching literacy more and having a good time incorporating Morton Gillingham techniques into my sessions. So I really kind of like a variety. And that's the good thing about private practice, you never get bored because there's always something fun and creative to do when you have a variety of kids with different needs.
00:06:15 Hallie: I love that you're also, like you mentioned, like you're constantly learning. It's a lifelong learner, which I love.
00:06:19 Kim: Oh, yes.
00:06:21 Hallie: I love that. Can you share something, this is something that I feel like is still relatively new in the field, like the sensory regulation and the importance of it. Can you share a little bit more about that for those that are still learning more about that and wanting to dive more into that?
00:06:35 Kim: Yes, that's a great question. So we've learned, or what I've learned, is that kids who are neurodivergent and definitely autistic children, at least 90% of them have sensory needs. And so that's another, I want to shout out to Jessie Ginsburg. I really got interested in it following her Instagram and reading her book, Ready, Set, Connect, taking her sensory course, and just learning all kinds of techniques to help regulate the kids on my caseload.
00:07:04 Kim: It's just been a game changer for them. Kids who are neurodivergent really need, they all have different needs and just finding out what those are and being able to cater to them individually in the session really helps to regulate them and helps them to focus better. And when they're able to be regulated, they're better able to focus and the language that you model is more likely going to stick with them. So.
00:07:31 Hallie: I love that. I love it. It really is the foundation to learning. So, and I know in like my prior knowing, sometimes sensory activities were the reward. And now it's the tool to get them to learn instead of the rewards of learning. So.
00:07:48 Kim: Yes. Yes. And I know it's different in the school system too. I mean, I was in the school system and when you've got a big group, it's hard to meet all of those needs and SLPs in the schools and teachers in the schools, they're doing the best they can. There's not always a whole lot of options, but that's one great thing about working with them individually is that I'm able to meet those needs and be flexible in the session and allow that movement.
00:08:13 Kim: There's so many great things on Amazon too, like collapsible tunnels and slime and parachutes and scooter boards, all kinds of fun things. I've learned a lot from a lot of OTs online as well. There's just so many great accounts out there to follow where you just continually learn. New ideas to help meet your kids needs. So…
00:08:34 Hallie: I love that. I find often, especially like in the schools, you feel like you have to stay in the speech room or wherever you're located. And sometimes that might not be appropriate. Like I've taken students, I've borrowed OT and PT rooms areas and worked or worked in the classroom in the sensory area or borrowed the sense, whatever. Sometimes you gotta think outside the box if you need to, to get those needs met.
00:08:57 Kim: Yes. I've been so lucky. The public school system I was in in Georgia was so great with children who had special needs. They were always going above and beyond to meet their sensory development. They had a sensory room at both of the schools where I worked. It was so great to work with so many wonderful people did think outside the box and understood that kids had those needs and were very flexible. And it was great.
00:09:29 Hallie: I love that. Can you share a little bit more about using a strength based approach for like reading and writing comprehension? Like we spoke about like literacy and using books and that it's so powerful, especially with your autistic students. I can share like the strength based approach with that.
00:09:45 Kim: Yeah. So a strength based approach is where you're focusing on the things that your child can do instead of the deficits and kids who are neurodivergent, especially autistic kids, they tend to have those splinter skills where they may be really strong in one area but not so strong in another because their brains just work differently. So one of the great things about working with kids individually is I'm able to see where they are and what their needs are and just incorporate those individually into the sessions.
00:10:16 Kim: I've got one little boy on my caseload who is, he's autistic and he does well at the beginning of the session just being able to do a play-based activity and just to move around and he will listen to books, but he tends to need some proprioceptive input while I'm reading to him. So he might like putting a lap desk on his lap, like a little kind of a little lap desk on his lap where he can be writing on paper and listening at the same time is just one way to just consider those sensory needs, but focus on incorporating the literacy into the session. Using dry erase board, allowing for that movement, and then sharing what I did with the parents so that they can incorporate that as well.
00:11:44 Hallie: I love that. I love that. Giving them what they need so that they can succeed versus trying to get them to do their weaknesses. Let's start where they're at. Let's build that.
00:11:16 Kim: Yes, starting where they are and just thinking about also incorporating their interests into the session. So if there's a child who is really interested in numbers, for example, you could find books about numbers or if a child is interested in Pokemon, just trying to find books about Pokemon and Chat GPT is an amazing resource as well. Especially for some of those older kids, you can create individual stories.
00:11:39 Kim: You can like give chat GPT a prompt to create a story for fourth grade boy who loves Pokemon and is working on the L sound and you know to create a reading passage for him to read and work on his articulation at the same times and then you know if he doesn't really enjoy doing it a whole lot we can kind of incorporate a game in that as well so yeah it's really fun.
00:12:04 Hallie: I love that I like using Google images and like Google slides like if they're into Pokemon or Spongebob I've had a lot into Spongebob putting Spongebob in different scenes or different problem scenarios and they can problem solution that or describe it or whatever goal you're working on without even the literacy based pieces, like just putting the pictures in different locations.
00:12:25 Kim: Yeah, that's the great thing about language therapy too. I love language therapy and that's one reason I love your materials too. You've got so many great materials. Yeah, but for language, there's sky's the limit with what you can do with that, right? You can work on problem solving. You can work on vocabulary, questions. All kinds of things like that. So we're calling it D2.
00:12:45 Hallie: You never know. Yeah. I love it. Like I once had a student who was very, like was obsessed with the principal. And I took a picture, I didn't, took a picture of him off the internet. And, but it was never funny. Lucky spots on Google images. And the kid thought it was the funniest thing, like, and it got a ton of language. So you never know. That's so funny.
00:13:02 Kim: I love that.
00:13:04 Hallie: You know, sometimes you gotta just think outside the box. I love it. What have you found are some practical tips that have been effective for your neurodivergent learners?
00:13:14 Kim: That's a great question too. The biggest thing is just looking at each child individually and just seeing what their needs are, of course, and finding out what the biggest driver is. So for most of my kids, they just, they really need that autonomy. They don't like to be told what to do. I totally understand. I totally get that in the same way. And just really following their lead and considering their interests, making sure that they're regulated and really working on establishing that rapport and relationship with them so that they, you know, have a good rapport with you and they trust you and enjoy what we're doing.
00:13:58 Kim: There's a lot of great apps out there too, because a lot of these kids, well, a lot of kids in general love technology. But there's so many wonderful apps that you can incorporate into the session where they don't really realize they're working. Like Starfall.com is a great one. You can work on reading, you can work on math. There's all kinds of wonderful things that you can work on on Starfall. And it goes up to fifth grade. And then I also love HairBuilder.com. I don't know if you've ever used that, but they've got like phonological awareness, they've got auditory memory. It's such a good, it's a good one. And they've got games that they kind of pop on there. 0:00:00 Hallie: Hey there SLP, working with grades four through 12. New school year, new you. Let's not go into this school year feeling overwhelmed and behind on paperwork. Let's not worry about students asking why they are coming to speech. Let's not have students shrug in their shoulders and looking at you saying, why am I here? I don't wanna be here. Let's instead have your students excited to come to speech, ready to take on the challenges you provide and make massive progress towards their goals.
00:14:34 Kim: So the kids don't even realize their work and they really enjoy that as well. So I think the biggest thing is just to consider, first prioritize your relationship, the regulation of the child, what their individual interests are and just follow in their lead. It's really fun.
00:14:51 Hallie: For someone listening that's saying, I get that, but I mean, how am I supposed to collect data when I'm building rapport and trying to gather, you know, get their sensory needs met, what would you say to them?
00:15:04 Kim: Are you talking about like in a school?
00:15:05 Hallie: Yeah, or anywhere, like something even like Medicaid billing or something, even private, maybe for billing purposes I'm playing devil's advocate here. That could be a question that someone listening might be asking. What about the data? How do you collect data in those moments?
00:15:21 Kim: That is such a good question too. And I'm keep saying, that's a good question. That's a good question. You know, that's the beauty of our field. You can't necessarily be a black or white thinker. You have to you know, think outside the box. And sometimes there are, even if we don't love them, there are things that will have to drive part of our session. You know, I've been fortunate because I don't take insurance, so I'm private paid, but I have worked for, you know, in situations where we had to collect data.
00:15:48 Kim: So you just have to be flexible and know that, okay, you know, sometimes we do have to do things we don't necessarily want to do in the session, and maybe we have to sit down and you know, especially like when you're looking at an IEP or you're looking at goals for insurance. Unfortunately, you know, that's the way they have to be written in order for that child to have services is to create that, you know, you want it to be strengths based, but at the same time, you have to show the need for those services. So just being flexible and just thinking, okay, if I need to do this, I will in order to get the child what they need.
00:16:25 Hallie: Love that. What would you tell your younger
SLP self like you wish you knew earlier on in your career.
00:16:31 Kim: My gosh.
00:16:33 Hallie: It could be anything.
00:16:35 Kim: Yeah, I would say you are never gonna stop learning. You are never gonna know everything that you need to know. Like there is so much to learn. And the biggest takeaway I would say from that is every child truly is different. You may think, okay, I'm gonna work on, let's say you wanted to specialize in R, the R sound.
Literally, I've worked with so many kids who work on the R sound. Every single one of them had a different need when it came to being able to, you know, try to get them to elicit that R or to produce it. Like every single child truly is different. It's not just black or white. You have to look at their personality.
00:17:15 Kim: You have to look at their attention and what motivates them. And, you know, you may come out of graduate school and think, wow, you know, I feel like I didn't feel like I knew everything when I got out of graduate school, but you just have to be willing to continue to learn and just realize you were never, you were always gonna feel like you never know enough. That's how I feel. I don't know about you, do you feel that way?
00:17:38 Hallie: Totally. First of all, also the field is constantly changing. Like in graduate school, there were no iPads. So AAC devices were a different, whole different ball game back then. There was like, there's just so much has changed that we have to constantly learn. We can't just stay in our bubble, in our box. We have to be okay with adapting, evolving, being lifelong learners. And that's a part of being in the field and doesn't make us less than.
00:18:10 Kim: Yeah, it's very intimidating. And you know, honestly, I don't know how everybody who's, you know, listening to this feels or how you feel. A lot of times I do feel like an imposter. I'm like, gosh, am I doing enough? It doesn't matter how much you're doing. You can be going above and beyond for the child. I mean, every SLP I know that I know feels this way, but you're like, am I doing enough? Could I be doing more? Am I doing the right thing? Should I be doing this?
00:18:35 Kim: I mean, even though I've been doing this for 27 years, I always second guess myself. And it's, you know, every child truly is different. And we're just all doing the best that we can is just as long as we don't give up and we keep learning.
00:18:50 Hallie: The fact that you're questioning that, that means you care, which means you are doing enough.
00:18:54 Kim: Yeah. Oh, you're sweet.
00:18:56 Hallie: It's true though, because if you didn't care, if you just don't, like, you know, it's always a matter of like, yes, we don't want to make it so that we're, you know, not doing things or keeping ourselves up at night. The fact that you care you are doing enough. So if you're listening to this and you are worrying about that, if you're feeling like you're an imposter, we're all imposters because we all have more to learn. There's always more to learn. We're doing enough because we care.
00:19:21 Kim: Yeah, and just like what you were just going back to what you were saying earlier about, you know, there's so many things on social media that can make people feel like a bad therapist. Oh, she's doing it this way, and she's doing it this, and they say that we have to do this, and they say we have to do that. I mean, you just have to truly look at the child, look at the setting you're in. You know, I was in the school system, I've been in, you know, in different settings and had insurance driving the session.
00:19:53 Kim: And sometimes you have to write a report a way that you may not completely be in love with, but if that's what gets the child services, you know, and sometimes we do have to make kids do things that they may not necessarily want to do. I mean, that's how life is. All of us have to do things we don't necessarily want to do. And we, and we are all, I know, wanting to set our children up for success in the future. And if that means sometimes making them sit down and do structured things, sometimes we have to do that. It just, of course, you have to look at the individual child, but it's just not black or white. There's just no such thing as the perfect scenario.
00:20:22 Hallie: And even like to think about what you said with the social media, like usually for that, like I know for myself, it's like, it's the highlight reel. Like 17 years in the field at this point, like sometimes I do share the mistakes I've made, but most of the time I'm sharing the successes after the how many tries and failures, leading up to that. So you can't judge someone's, you know, chapter 17 or whatever, you know, from someone else's chapter one or whatever. So there's usually a lot of mistakes that happen before anything. It gets dismayed.
00:20:56 Kim: Oh, I know I have. I continue to make mistakes and that's okay. We're all doing our best as long as we don't give up.
00:21:03 Hallie: That's why our sessions are 30 minutes, maybe 45 minutes if it's private, like, you can start all over again.
00:21:09 Kim: Yeah, that's all right. And as long as they're smiling when they see you, maybe you're doing something right. Right.
00:21:14 Hallie: They don't know it doesn't go as planned, so it's all good.
00:21:18 Kim: Yeah, that's exactly right.
00:21:20 Hallie: Any last bit of advice that you would love to share with everyone listening, wanting to, you know, better themselves, learn a little more?
00:21:28 Kim: Yeah, well, I love reading a lot, so I just recommend definitely taking care of your mental health, taking care of your physical health. Like for me, it's really hard, and you probably feel this too, as a small business owner and just wearing a lot of different hats to turn off your brain sometimes, but it's so important to make time for yourself. And for me, I have to prioritize physical fitness and exercise, that really helps me mentally. And it gets me in a good head space to where I feel like I'm a better therapist. So I would definitely recommend that. Prioritizing your physical health and your mental health, and just knowing that you are a person and you've just gotta take care of yourself. That's so important. And when you take care of yourself, you're a better therapist.
00:22:11 Hallie: Those are true. Drink your water. Get your steps in, guys. Oh.
00:22:15 Kim: Yeah. I wouldn't leave.
00:22:18 Hallie: Right? You know, even if it's just that, get your bathroom breaks, eat your lunch, like take, you know, learning to say no. You don't have to do every committee. Like it's so important.
00:22:29 Kim: I've been the worst about that over time. I'm getting better, but, you know, as I get older, but yes, learning to say no and then just prioritizing your time and being very stingy with your time and just realizing like abundance isn't necessarily money. It could be an abundance of time. It can be an abundance of just a calm space or rest or friends and always trying to look at the positive as much as you can because that helps you to be a better therapist too when you look at things in a positive light.
00:23:00 Hallie: I love that. Where can everyone learn more about you and everything you have to offer?
00:23:05 Kim: Okay, so I'm on Instagram at Empowering Speech Services. I'm also on TikTok, Empowering Speech Services. I really need to up my content game though. I'm looking at, there's so many great content creators out there and I'm trying to learn how to get better with my content creation. But so I do those too. And then I have a Teachers Pay Teacher Store at Empowering Speech Services. I've really enjoyed that. That's been really fun. I loved scrapbooking when I was younger and creating materials for them. The kids in my caseload and then putting those up for sale has been a good little side gig to make some extra income as well. So yeah, that's where some like-
00:23:42 Hallie: Awesome, we'll have links to everything in the show notes. Can I always end my episodes with a joke since jokes build rapport and they are a lot of fun. How do polar bears make their bed?
00:23:52 Kim: For a minute I thought you were gonna ask me to tell a joke, I was like, shit.
00:23:55 Hallie: I would have told you ahead of time, but I was gonna have another screen open with tons of jokes.
00:24:00 Kim: Oh my God, I'm screwed here. How did polar bears make their bed? I have no idea.
00:24:06 Hallie: Sheets of ice and blankets of snow.
00:24:10 Kim: Oh, that's cute.
00:24:12 Hallie: My corny dad jokes are here every week. You've got them, guys. My corny dad jokes. Use them with your students. Builder that rapport. You can talk about the multi-millioning of the sheets of ice and the blankets of snow. It is winter time. Maybe you're having snow today.
00:24:32 Kim: I was looking at your membership too. I was like, I need to join that membership. I need to join. I love good membership. I love a good membership.
00:24:39 Hallie: If you work with older students, you get access and this episode airing in February and our theme is winter, but appropriate for the older students. So like the world's snowiest city and kids that have like jobs for shoveling snow to make money for new sneakers. That appropriate winter related but not like let's make hot chocolate or let's yeah it's more older student related.
00:25:08 Kim: That's so good.
00:25:10 Hallie: You got access to that and all the previous themes such as previous snow winter sports I think and–
00:25:19 Kim: That's so amazing. Yeah I didn't even know you I knew it one time you were thinking about doom or maybe a long time ago I knew that you had thought about doing that but that's when I was in a different, didn't really need for the older students. But then like last night when I got on your Instagram, I was like, she's got a membership? What? I was like, I'd love a good membership. I'm all about this.
00:25:40 Hallie: Tons and tons of resources for older students.
00:25:44 Kim: It's so much easier. Yeah, so much easier. That's what we have to do nowadays.
00:25:47 Hallie: Actually, like interest-based learning, like, hey kid, do you wanna talk about snow or do you wanna talk about whatever?
00:25:55 Kim: And the great thing about that is you can, because I have some other kids in my caseload and the parents love to work with the kids at home doing like carryover. So that would be perfect. I could print off materials and just be like, here you go. Yeah, instead of like looking for all that stuff on TPT and spending the money anyway, you're going to spend the money anyway and why not get an unlimited membership like yours?
00:26:18 Hallie: Click and go.
00:26:19 Kim: Yeah. Make your life easier.
00:26:21 Hallie: Take your time back and watch Netflix.
00:26:23 Kim: Oh my gosh, time is the biggest, that's the biggest gift. I don't know what, that has been the best thing about being a private practice owner is having more time and flexibility. I mean, I cannot, your time is so important, you know?
00:26:37 Hallie: Thank you so, so much, Kim, and everyone listening, go check her out on Instagram. And until next week, everyone, stay out of trouble.
00:26:50 Hallie: Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. It means the world to me that you're tuning in each and every week and getting the jolt of inspiration you need. You can find all of the links and information mentioned in this episode at my website, speechtimefun.com. Don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss any future episodes. And while you're there… It would mean the world to me if you would take a few seconds and leave me an honest review. See you next week with another episode full of fun and inspiration from one SLP to another. Have fun guys!
