273: Redefining Social Skills
Show Notes:
In this episode of SLP Coffee Talk, Hallie welcomes Gabby Pyzza, a passionate SLP specializing in social skills for older students. Gabby shares her inspiring journey from feeling overwhelmed in her first job to developing a comprehensive blueprint for teaching conversation skills. She offers practical strategies for engaging students, including the use of conversation starters and visual aids, while emphasizing the importance of fostering genuine connections. Whether you're looking to enhance your social skills sessions or seeking inspiration, this episode is filled with valuable insights and heartwarming success stories!
Here's what we learned:
- Social skills instruction can lead to profound changes in students' social interactions.
- Building genuine connections is essential for effective communication.
- Visual aids may improve understanding and retention of skills.
- Respecting student preferences while promoting engagement is crucial.
RESOURCES
Learn more about Gabby Pyzza:
Website: https://www.pyzzaspeechtherapy.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pyzzaspeechtherapy/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pyzzaspeechtherapy
Learn more about Hallie Sherman and SLP Elevate:
🎧 Check out the Secondary Secret Podcast here!
JOKE OF THE WEEK:
Q: Why does nobody talk to circles?
A: Because there's no point
Where We Can Connect:
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TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00 Hallie: Hey there, SLP working with grades 4 through 12. New school year, new you. Let's not go into this school year feeling overwhelmed and behind on paperwork. Let's not worry about students asking why they are coming to speech. Let's not have students shrug in their shoulders and looking at you saying, “Why am I here? I don't wanna be here.” Let's instead have your students excited to come to speech, ready to take on the challenges you provide and make massive progress towards their goals.
00:00:31 Hallie: If you are ready to make this school year the year that you leave work promptly at the end of the day, plan in an hour or less a week and go into every session confident that your students will grasp the session objectives, then SLP Elevate is just what you need to make this school year a successful one. Either go to slpelevate.com or send me a DM on Instagram with the word club, C-U-L-B, and we can discuss if SLP Elevate is right for you and your students. Now is the time to get your time back. And now is the time to get your students excited to come to speech. SLP Elevate is perfect for you.
00:01:14 Hallie: Welcome to SLP Coffee Talk, the podcast designed exclusively for speech language pathologists who work with older students, grades 4 through 12. I am your host, Hallie Sherman, your SLP behind Speech Time Fun, the Speech Retreat Conference, and the SLP Elevate Membership. And I'm thrilled to bring you conversations, strategies, and insights that will give you the jolt of inspiration that you need. Whether you're tuning in during your morning commute, on a break in between sessions, or even during a well-deserved relaxation time. I am here for you each and every week. Let's do this SLPs.
00:01:57 Hallie: Hey, hey, and welcome to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. Today I have Gabby Pyzza here and we're gonna be talking all about social skills. I know a lot of you listening have a lot of students on your caseload that have these goals, need these goals, parents, teachers are coming to you for these goals. Gabby, welcome to the show.
00:02:18 Gabby: Thanks, I am so happy to be here and to be talking about this. I could literally talk about this all day and I'm happy to be here with you and to talk about it with people that actually want to hear about it.
00:02:31 Hallie: You are in the right place and everyone listening is like, “Yes, yes.” So can we tell everyone listening a little bit about your SLP journey and how you got to be passionate about this topic here today?
00:02:43 Gabby: So, right after grad school, my first job was at a high school and my entire caseload was social skills goals. So I was thrust right into it and I didn't really have any knowledge from grad school. I feel like we barely touched on this compared to speech sound disorders and everything else. This was the tiniest amount of work on it. And, of course, I landed in the spot where I had so many kids that needed the support.
00:03:15 Gabby: So, kind of threw me right into it, spent so much time researching, piecemealing, Googling. There was some stuff, but there wasn't anything really comprehensive. And I felt like the levels were also so different. It was either for really young kids or for kids who were older or who had a better understanding of these skills and were further advanced.
00:03:42 Gabby: So for my students at that time, there wasn't really anything that existed. So I had to fill that gap and do things to support them. So, I definitely questioned my career at that time. I'm sure as many of you–
00:04:00 Hallie: Become a Starbucks barista instead.
00:04:03 Gabby: Yeah. And so, having to really create all of these things to support these kids and kind of really having to figure out how to help these kids not only learn the skills, but really apply them and not just in the classroom where we can't really see how it's being applied. So it was really challenging.
00:04:25 Gabby: But I had the pleasure of working with the 18 to 21 age group students who graduated high school, but not fully. And so they had work placements and they were in a structured environment. So we did a weekly social skills group. And that's where I really got to develop my blueprint that I now offer to families that I work with and other families too, but a real step-by-step process for conversation skills.
00:04:55 Gabby: And I figured out that that's what everything kind of boils down to. How do we talk to each other in a conversation? And all those nuances, and it feels so dynamic and complex, but there are actual ways that we can break it down in a way that makes sense.
00:05:13 Gabby: And yeah, so I got to teach them that, and it was really amazing because when I first started with them, nobody talked to anybody. And then by the end of our time together and when I left working at that school, they had a graduation. And it was just the most mind blowing thing to see where they were talking to each other. Their parents were there. They were talking to each other's parents. They were talking to the superintendent and the board of directors.
00:05:41 Gabby: Yeah, it was wild. It was the most amazing thing to see that they had applied all these skills and they felt so confident to just talk with people. And yeah, it was amazing. So that really like sparked my love for this.
00:05:56 Hallie: I love that. And so often people think with the older students that you're no longer going to see progress, that they've plateaued. What more can we do with them at this point? And I love that you said that in that short period of time you're working with them, you did see progress. You did see the impact that you were having.
00:06:13 Gabby: Yeah, it was so powerful. And not just to see them talking to each other. And I knew, just from an individual basis, connecting with each of them that they all wanted to have friends. And they all shared that they wanted that but they didn't know how and they didn't know how to talk to other people to make friends. So yeah, it was cool not only to see them talk to each other, but make plans outside of school and do those things that they weren't able to do before.
00:06:44 Gabby: And it even really spans an even broader range, right? Because they were working in the workforce at that time. And so we started to notice improvements even in their work placements with how they were connecting with the staff at those job sites. I think it's so easy to feel like when we're in the schools that we see these goals and we're like, “Okay, this is what I have to do.” And it's so easy to be decontextualized, right? You forget the whole purpose of it. And it's really for connection and life beyond school.
00:07:22 Hallie: That was so true. And we want to make our goals and activities relevant to their world, if we want them to be bought in.
00:07:30 Gabby: Yeah.
00:07:32 Hallie: And I love it also that you share that like you felt, I don't want to say you were clueless, but–
00:07:37 Gabby: Basically.
00:07:38 Hallie: You weren't sure. And it's so common. And I want people listening that are feeling this way or have felt this way, this is normal. This is so normal in the field. And that's why we have episodes here like this one to share what people have learned from their mistakes and their research and their trial and errors. So can you share a little bit more about why traditional social skills instruction can be controversial? As you were talking, I was thinking about the whole shift towards neurodiversity-affirming practices and how did all this work?
00:08:10 Gabby: Yeah, yeah. So I think for the longest time – the research is old and there isn't even that much research on social skills. And I think a lot of times it goes back to that where people feel like, “Well, we're really teaching our students, our clients how to comply and how to have these scripts and how to know exactly how to act in these social situations.” And that is a way that people teach it.
00:08:42 Gabby: But the way that I approach it is more of teaching them something that they might not even know and that it could help them, but then also giving them that choice. So not forcing them to have a script, right? Giving them a little starter of like, how do we greet each other? And giving them that as a script.
00:09:04 Gabby: But then reminding them that conversation is like a choose your own adventure. And it's so dynamic and it is so evolving with – you can ask me one question, I'll give you an answer. But I could have also given you a totally different answer. So it is so complex. And so giving them that choice to know like, “Hey, these are the skills. This will help us to connect with each other. And then you can choose how to use that.”
00:09:33 Gabby: I think just like shifting away from that compliance of like, “You have to make eye contact,” to have good social skills. But if you're in your house and you're cooking something and your kids or your husband are asking you something from the other side of the room, you don't necessarily have to look at them to give them an answer, but you're connecting with a question or a comment or an answer that's on topic. So really focusing on those foundational skills for connection rather than teaching these rote, rigid rules that aren't always applicable.
00:10:10 Hallie: And then we used to always see and still do sometimes see goals like preferred and non-preferred topics and things like that. What's your take on all that?
00:10:18 Gabby: Okay. I love that you asked that. So I know that that can be a little controversial because we don't want to force our students to talk about things they don't like. But my perspective on it is, yes, I agree with that. However, also we want to teach them how to stay engaged in a topic even if they're not interested because when we have friends or people we talk to, family members, there are things that they like that we don't really care for, but we still want to show them that we care about them and that we respect them and their interests.
00:10:56 Gabby: So we do have to stay on that topic even for a couple of turns to ask questions, right? So I think it is an important skill. It's just how you teach it. So, of course not forcing a child to stay on a topic that they hate or makes them feel uncomfortable, but I think it's a really important skill. I have friends that are not speech therapists and they have other jobs and other roles. And if I didn't ask them questions about their jobs because I didn't really care about that topic, then that would kind of disintegrate that friendship, right?
00:11:33 Gabby: They wouldn't necessarily feel like I cared about them because I didn't talk about the thing they wanted to talk about as well. So I think it's important. It's just how do we teach it and then reminding. I always go back to the purpose of why we're working on a skill. So letting them know that we're looking for a connection and you're looking to find if you actually want to talk to that person again and if you actually want to be friends with them.
00:12:01 Gabby: And the way that we can figure that out is if we talk to people. Because if you and I just sat here and didn't talk to each other at all, we wouldn't know anything about each other. And we wouldn't know if we wanted to continue our relationship and our friendship and kind of dive deeper. So yeah, just bringing it back to that purpose, even though you might not be interested in the topic. There are definitely times in life where we have to stick with it, even if we don't necessarily care all that much.
00:12:30 Hallie: So often I hear us SLP saying, “I was trying to work on this and all they wanted to do was talk about Pokemon. They only wanted to talk about this. I could not get them to talk about anything else.” What would you say to them?
00:12:41 Gabby: Yeah, yeah. So that is a really good question. And it's okay for us to talk about things we want to talk about. We just also want to give the other person a chance to share about things because we like different things. And I think just making that relevant, right? Like I enjoy talking about a specific movie. So I'd love to hear about your Pokemon. And then I would like to talk about my movie, too.
00:13:10 Gabby: So kind of just creating that balance of like, yes, it's totally fine to talk about the things that you like. And also, this person you're talking to also has the thing that they want to talk about, too. So just kind of increasing that awareness that we want to give everyone a fair chance to share about the things they like.
00:13:28 Hallie: I love that. And I love it just bringing about the connection and the goal in mind and showing them like, “Hey, it's your way of finding out if you even like this person and want to talk to them again.” Because so often, especially in a speech group, they might not want to be friends, but they're forced to be there together. And students with very different passions and wanting to dominate the conversations or dominate the sessions–
00:13:54 Gabby: And they might not even realize that they're taking over, right? And something else that I always say to my students, my clients is that if you stay curious just a little longer, you might learn something new. And so when we're practicing and after I share something, “Did you know that?” And they're like, “No.” “Would you have known that if you didn't ask the question?” They're like, “No.”
00:14:24 Gabby: I'm like, “What can you do with that information now?” And so it helps to build that bigger picture in those groups, especially if they're in a school group where they're kind of forced to be there together. It's just that's how it was created. They probably all do have different interests and I think just showing that's awesome. We all have different things we like and just how can we connect to show that we want to give everyone an equal chance to participate and connect. And you might become friends with that person that you never thought.
00:14:58 Hallie: I love that. I love that so much. Do you have a favorite activity? Is it role playing? Is it video modeling scripts? What is your favorite way of teaching this and introducing this and working on this in a fun way?
00:15:11 Gabby: Yeah. I use a lot of different things. I actually think my favorite way that I do the most is just having a conversation and writing it out. It takes a while because it's not as fast paced, but typing it out so they can visually see what was being said. And sometimes that helps so much because a lot is happening in a conversation. We have to remember what was said and figure out how to respond next.
00:15:43 Gabby: So I think just really boiling it down and bringing it down to that level if you have the time to type it out. I usually type it out because it's a lot faster than handwriting. And that way you can highlight and color code each person gets their own color and then you can kind of identify, “Okay, well, you asked a question. Was it on topic?” “Yeah, I was,” and look what we learned from that.
00:16:06 Gabby: So I think that that is the way that I found that works the best for some, obviously not everybody, but it is a great way to add another learning modality as well with that visual piece and then pausing and breaking it down, giving them a chance to come up with their answers. And although it's not fully a real conversation, I think it really helps break it down because goals like “We'll maintain a conversation for three back and forth turns.”
00:16:34 Gabby: Yes, super important, but how do we show them that, right? So I think visually showing that is super helpful in having them understand to look – I love at the very end of our sessions when we do this. We literally just took 20 turns each in this conversation that when we first started, you said you didn't have anything to say about it, right? So think it also gives the students that sense of pride, like, “Oh my gosh, I did that.” And it shows them that they are capable of it and they can visually see it too.
00:17:09 Hallie: I love that they can see the growth over time. Look, this was in September and this is in May. I love that. That's so cool. And color coding it. It's so simple. You're just typing it out. It's nothing fancy. There's no expensive tool. It's taking your Chromebook, your whatever computer, laptop, iPad, anything, and just typing it out for them. I love that.
00:17:36 Gabby: Yeah. And I've tried to, like if I'm on a virtual call with a client, in my – I have my own private practice. So I do teletherapy as well. But sometimes the platform allows you to have closed captions. So sometimes I like to have that on as well while we're talking if we're not typing it out, but so that they can kind of see and follow along as well. That's another helpful little like – that I've used too.
00:18:09 Hallie: So fun. And how do you select the topics or conversation starters or things like that?
00:18:15 Gabby: Yeah, okay. So I use this tool. I call it the Wheel of Topics. And so I have put in a bunch of topics. So it depends. Sometimes I'll make it super specific, like paper clips or pop the pig or a specific game or something super hyper specific. Or sometimes I'll leave it really broad and it's just like movies, TV shows. And so it'll spin and then it lands on something so no one has to pick.
00:18:44 Gabby: I'll often give my client a chance to add any other topics that they want to before we get started if there's something that they really enjoy talking about or want to. So we'll add that into – but spin the wheel, it lands on it. And then that's how we – I pull in other visuals and things that I use to teach with my little blueprint method. But then we use it that way to kind of not have a conversation starter, but give them the opportunity to start the conversation about this topic.
00:19:17 Hallie: So fun. Can you share like an aha or a success story that made you just really just love what you're doing even more?
00:19:25 Gabby: Yeah, yeah. So I worked with this client, middle school age. And when we first started working together, their mom was saying how they hadn't been invited to any birthday parties and they just didn't really have other people. They were on a sports team that was more solo sports team, not like competing as a team. So he was part of that, but didn't really have any hangouts or anything like that.
00:20:00 Gabby: And after about a year of working together, she sent an email and I literally cried when I read it. I have it printed and I keep it in my office at home as a reminder of why I do what I do. But she had shared that they noticed the impact at home and he's asking his parents questions and connecting with his siblings more. And he's been invited to more birthday parties than ever in his life. And he has a group of friends that he hangs out with on a weekly basis and has friends to sit with at lunch and has first sleepover ever.
00:20:39 Gabby: Yeah, so it was really, really powerful to see just how life transforming working on these skills can really be. So yeah, it's not just about these rigid rules, but really the purpose is connection, because we all want to have someone that we're connected to, whether it's one person or a couple people. But just feeling like we have someone that we can talk to and do things with. And so needing to teach these skills in a way that that makes sense and easy to apply and understand, but the impacts are profound.
00:21:18 Hallie: On the flip side, have you ever had a client that didn't want to improve, didn't want to communicate, didn't want to be social and said like, “I'm happy the way I am. Don't change me.”
00:21:29 Gabby: Yeah, that's a good question. I'd have to think on that. Yeah. I've had a client that was resistant. But in the end, they were really – they said that they didn't want that. And I respected that. And I said, “Okay, I'm just going to teach you these things just so that you know and you get to choose if you want to use them or not.” And then they started to apply it without even recognizing it and I got messages from their mom saying like, “They actually asked a follow up question for the first time. They're actually showing interest in connecting with someone else.”
00:22:12 Gabby: So I think deep down, most of us hope to connect with someone. So not saying everyone does. But yeah, I have had clients who didn't want to – oh, this actually brings up another way back when in my school caseload where I did have a student that was super, super resistant. And I found out that they enjoyed tea just through like – they really didn't even want to talk to me at all.
00:22:41 Gabby: But somehow I found out they liked tea. And so I ended up getting the instant hot water heater and having some tea and a little station. And the next time they came in, they were like, “Oh, what is that?” Like, “Oh, just tea. If you want some, you can have some. You don't have to.” And slowly they made their own tea. And then they started talking and I was like, “Oh, that's awesome. We're getting to connect.” And he's like, “Yeah, that's actually pretty cool.” So, yeah. Sometimes you just–
00:23:12 Hallie: How did you find that out that he liked tea?
00:23:15 Gabby: Through conversation.
00:23:20 Hallie: Hey, guys, the power of just asking the right questions. You get some information.
00:23:26 Gabby: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so with questions, we can learn about the other person and with comments we can share about ourselves. Yeah. Super powerful with even just connecting with that person that was so resistant and said that they didn't want to connect in any way.
00:23:46 Hallie: So often we get so tied up on the lesson plan and the material and the goal and the data when we need to focus on the connection and our overall impact we're having and why we're doing what we're doing.
00:23:59 Gabby: Yeah. Yeah. And it's so hard, especially when you're in the schools and you have so many kids on your caseload and feeling like, “How are you even going to work on all these goals that are all so different, but are also important?” Yeah, I think this one is equally as important to everything else because it does have lifelong impacts.
00:24:22 Gabby: And we're teaching our kids, even at a younger age, how to connect with people so that they can feel like they have a choice too in who they wanna talk to. And they don't have to be friends with everyone. And actually, I just remembered, cause I know you had shared how when we have groups in the schools, sometimes those kids don't wanna be friends with each other.
00:24:47 Gabby: And I actually decided to stop calling everyone friends in the group. When I would do that, like, “Oh, ask your friend, blah, blah, blah.” And I think we inherently do that as educators and trying to connect. But I did have a student that was like, “They're not my friend and I don't wanna be friends with them.” And I was like, “Well, okay.” So just even taking that wording out so that way our kids don't feel like we're forcing them to be friends with other people. That it's their choice. They can choose if they want to be friends with this person or not, and that's totally okay.
00:25:23 Hallie: Especially like – I know my own kids at home when they're younger, like, “Come on. Just be friends with everyone.” But as they're getting older, they learn, “That's not my type of person. That's not my type of person,” and that's normal. And even relating like, “Hey, all these coworkers and these other teachers, they're not my friends, but I have to be civil, have to be polite. And I have to make small talk at the water cooler or the photocopying machine or whatever.” There's no water cooler, but you know what I mean. But showing them and relating those stories like, “Hey, this is real life. You don't have to be friends with everyone, but you can't be rude.”
00:26:02 Gabby: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. There's still ways that we can connect with people, even if we don't want to be friends. And we do it the same way that we would talking to a friend as well. And you never know, maybe that person at the copy machine, you talk a little bit, ask some questions, share some things, and you might find out that you actually have things in common and you would like to talk with them more.
00:26:25 Hallie: Both watching Love is Blind or whatever it is. You never know, right?
00:26:28 Gabby: Yeah, exactly.
00:26:29 Hallie: I love it. I love it that like it's just real life, especially with older students. And I love you shared some practical strategies even for via teletherapy. It doesn't need to be fancy, just needs to be effective. Build that connection. Show them that you care. Any last bit of advice for someone who's feeling a little overwhelmed or how you might have felt in the beginning?
00:26:54 Gabby: Yeah, I was you. I am you.
00:26:58 Hallie: Still.
00:26:59 Gabby: Still. It definitely feels overwhelming and not knowing where to start, but I am always here to answer questions or to connect. And I will have some resources that can just give a roadmap for those that feel like they don't even know where to start. Because I think it's just – this is such an important skill. I don't know if I want to call it a skill, but just an area that we all need and want. So, yeah. I think knowing that there are resources that are available can help so much and even just reducing the anxiety a little bit because I definitely know what it feels like.
00:27:52 Hallie: A little bit. And I love it. Sometimes we just want a curriculum, a roadmap. Tell me exactly what to do. I don't want to think. And it's such a normal common thing. And that's why our job is so challenging, yet also so rewarding.
00:28:09 Gabby: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, there is no curriculum for teaching social skills. That was my mission for supporting myself. Creating a curriculum of some sort on what to teach and how to teach it and in what order to just kind of remove some of that stress. And of course, in those sessions, you kind of pivot a little bit and you adjust as you need to but having these general roadmaps to kind of help us can help so much.
00:28:40 Hallie: Where can everyone learn more about you and everything you have to offer?
00:28:44 Gabby: Yeah. So my website pyzzaspeechtherapy.com or Instagram @pyzzaspeechtherapy or Facebook at Pyzza Speech Therapy.
00:28:55 Hallie: And we'll be linking to all those in the show notes. And by the time this episode is airing, you will now know where can everyone learn even more, about how to learn more from you?
00:29:05 Gabby: They can go to my website and they will find other resources to support them there.
00:29:10 Hallie: You're also speaking where?
00:29:11 Gabby: Oh yeah, about that. The Speech Retreat in July.
00:29:16 Hallie: Well, this is airing in April, so it's after the – we'll have already announced.
00:29:21 Gabby: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, so I will be teaching at the speech treat as well and diving a little bit deeper. So, yeah, I'm super excited.
00:29:29 Hallie: July, we are so excited to learn more from you. Everyone check out Gabby's Instagram. Definitely if you have not registered for the Speech Retreat, what are you waiting for? And you can head to speechretreat.com to do that. And I always end my episodes with a joke because it builds rapport and it's filled with language and lots of fun. So why does – I thought this one was appropriate for the topic. Why does nobody talk to circles?
00:29:58 Gabby: Because they go around and around?
00:30:01 Hallie: Close, because there's no point.
00:30:03 Gabby: Oh.
00:30:06 Hallie: My corny dad jokes.
00:30:08 Gabby: I'm going to use that in my sessions this upcoming week.
00:30:12 Hallie: That's why I tell them that these episodes air every Monday, so you have these jokes all week long. Take credit for them yourself. It is okay. I did not make it up. I found it. The power of Google and the internet that helps me find them.
00:30:28 Gabby: Love it.
00:30:29 Hallie: Thank you so much, Gabby. Thank you everyone listening. Go check out Gabby on Instagram and all the things and stay tuned every Monday for another episode of your jolt of inspiration you need. And until next week, stay out of trouble.
00:30:49 Hallie: Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. It means the world to me that you're tuning in each and every week and getting the jolt of inspiration you need. You can find all of the links and information mentioned in this episode at my website, speechtimefun.com. Don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss any future episodes. And while you're there, it would mean the world to me if you would take a few seconds and leave me an honest review. See you next week with another episode full of fun and inspiration from one SLP to another. Have fun guys.
