301: Working with a Parent Advocate

Show Notes:

In this episode of SLP Coffee Talk, Hallie chats with Dr. Destiny Huff—a late-diagnosed autistic and ADHD therapist, trauma specialist, and special education advocate—about how SLPs can approach the IEP process with more empathy and collaboration. Dr. Destiny shares her journey from parent to advocate, common fears families bring into meetings, and how SLPs can communicate with compassion while standing firm in their expertise. You’ll also learn practical tips for writing neuroaffirming IEP goals and supporting students without losing sight of their individuality. Whether you’re new to advocacy or want to feel more confident at the IEP table, this conversation is full of insight, encouragement, and reminders that teamwork truly makes the difference.

📘✨ Grab your copy of The Secondary SLP Roadmap here! https://www.speechtimefunpd.com/stf-book 

Here's what we learned:

  • Advocacy starts with empathy and understanding the parent perspective.
  • SLPs and OTs are key allies in creating meaningful, student-centered IEPs.
  • Neuroaffirming goals focus on support, not “fixing” differences.
  • Collaboration, not confrontation, leads to better outcomes for everyone.
  • Every IEP meeting is a chance to advocate with compassion and confidence.

RESOURCES

Learn more about Dr. Destiny Duff: 

Learn more about Hallie Sherman  and SLP Elevate: 

JOKE OF THE WEEK:

Q: Why did the little girl hit her birthday cake with a hammer?

A: It was a pound cake.

Where We Can Connect: 

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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00 Hallie: Hey there, SLP friends, it is me, Hallie, popping in here with a super exciting announcement. My brand new book, Secondary SLP Roadmap, is officially launching and we are celebrating in style. Join me for a virtual book launch party on Wednesday, November 5th at 8 p.m. Eastern Time. We will have prizes, games, giveaways, and of course, tons of laughs and inspiration for all my fellow secondary SLPs. 

00:00:28 Hallie: It is totally free to attend, but you need to save your spot. Head to speechtimefun.com/launchparty to register right now. If you work with grades 4 through 12, you do not want to miss this. It is again, speechtimefun.com/launchparty. Grab your favorite mug, bring your speechy besties and come celebrate with me. I cannot wait to see you there.

00:01:02 Hallie: Welcome to SLP Coffee Talk, the podcast designed exclusively for speech language pathologists who work with older students, grades 4 through 12. I am your host, Hallie Sherman, your SLP behind Speech Time Fun, the Speech Retreat Conference, and the SLP Elevate Membership. And I'm thrilled to bring you conversations, strategies, and insights that will give you the jolt of inspiration that you need. Whether you're tuning in during your morning commute, on a break in between sessions, or even during a well-deserved relaxation time. I am here for you each and every week. Let's do this, SLPs.

00:01:43 Hallie: Hey, hey, and welcome to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. Today, I have Dr. Destiny Huff today to be talking all about advocacy and the IEP process and things that I know you are going to love. Dr. Destiny, welcome to the show. 

00:02:00 Dr. Destiny: Thank you for having me. 

00:02:02 Hallie: Tell everyone listening about your journey to what you are doing today.

00:02:07 Dr. Destiny: So I am late diagnosed, autistic and ADHD, and I am a mental health therapist and a non-attorney special education advocate. I'm also a certified trauma therapist for children. And I became an advocate after my oldest son entered into the public school system undiagnosed. So he was what, I don't prescribe to labels, but he is what people would classify as high functioning. He does have a level one autism diagnosis, but we received all of that after he entered into the public school system. 

00:02:39 Dr. Destiny: And so being that my husband was military, I knew we were gonna be moving around a lot. And then my youngest son has a speech delay. So I knew he would need some type of support in school as well. So I was like, I need to learn about this process. And so I dove deep in. :ooking at all the resources and then I was like, oh, I wanna help families prevent what we went through, which was quite traumatizing. And that's how I became an advocate.

00:03:05 Hallie: I'm sure through your own experiences, but also through what you're doing now, you've met some interesting stories and had some breakthroughs and really helped families get the services that they needed. Can you share with us – without obviously disclosing personal information, just some things that SLPs in the schools should be aware of that these are some situations and from the family side of things?

00:03:32 Dr. Destiny: I will say that one of the first hurdles that I tackled personally as a parent was that because my son has a lot of language and is very verbal and has a very large vocabulary, there was just this perception that he didn't have any pragmatic needs. And so his initial special education evaluation, he did not qualify for pragmatic speech services. And when we moved to our next duty station, because we were leaving anyways, we were like, just cut the IEP so we can go. The first thing we did was request another speech evaluation specifically focusing on pragmatics because we knew pragmatic language was a concern for him being autistic. 

00:04:19 Dr. Destiny: And just the interactions we have seen, and I want to be clear, I'm not generalizing that to all autistics, but for him, we had witnessed it and we were like, that is definitely a concern. So personally, I wanna say, just being mindful that just because they are speaking or have a lot of language doesn't mean that they necessarily get the nuances of social situations. I think that's a big one for SLPs. And then the other thing is that some of the biggest allies at the special education table that I've seen as an advocate are SLPs and OTs because a lot of times they are doing a small group session with the learner or they are doing individual. 

00:05:02 Dr. Destiny: So they're able to provide accommodations that the general education or special education teachers may not even know the learner benefits from because they're seeing them in a different environment and around different learners. And so I always say to that, like get comfortable if not speaking at the table, get comfortable speaking to the parent and telling them, hey, I'm seeing these things you should advocate for these things. 

00:05:28 Hallie: That's so, so helpful. And I love it that you said that OTs and SLPs tend to see things that some others on the table might not. What would you say to an SLP who is unaware of maybe how parents are coming in the meetings? The parents that you're working with, what would you say, you know, is their biggest fears or biggest concerns when they're going into these meetings?

00:05:52 Dr. Destiny: One, a lot of times I would say a lot of parents hire advocates because I've noticed like kind of three things. One, they may not just understand the process. So this isn't like a, I feel like I need to bring someone in to go against the school. They're just like, I don't understand the terms being used. I don't understand the services my child's getting. Can you break it down to me and just plain terms? So that's one. 

00:06:19 Dr. Destiny: Another one is that they'll hire advocates because they just feel hurt. They're just like, I don't feel like they're listening to me. I feel like they're saying, yeah, sure, okay, we'll work on that. But I'm still saying the same thing every meeting. And then the third is because they have just been outright told like, no, you're not… we're not gonna do that. And we can't do that and we won't do that. 

00:06:43 Dr. Destiny: So, I think what I really want SLPs to know when the family comes to the meeting or when you're going through your evaluation for that initial special education evaluation and you've done the self and you've looked at recessive and expressive language and you're looking at all these pieces, sometimes the questioning comes from the parent having received their report and trying to understand and go in there and ask valid questions. Parents get very concerned about, does that make sense? Am I saying that the right way? Do I even have, am I even asking the right question? 

00:07:19 Dr. Destiny: And sometimes there can be, especially for a lot of our older SLPs, and I think this is just in general in any field, there can be this kind of like, I'm being questioned as a professional when it's really the parent is like, I don't really understand the terms and the testing. I just know that my child struggles with this, like, or they struggle with that. And now you're calling it this and you're saying they need this or you're saying they don't need that because that's developmentally appropriate, but I don't understand. So being receptive to those questions and being open to answering them. 

00:07:53 Hallie: That's so true. Like, I know I sat for family members on the other side of the table to help them understand. Cause they're like, I'm like, you can ask questions. You can ask, what does that mean? You can say, I don't agree with it. And like, they just don't know their rights. When I'm like, I'm sitting there on the other side, just knowing the process, unless you go to school for it, and that's what you do for a living, like, you don't know. They're there for their children. They want just what's best. And always being mindful when you're presenting the information to families, being mindful, like, these are their children. 

00:08:24 Dr. Destiny: Yes. 

00:08:25 Hallie: Like, this is not just a, like, scientific experiment, like, or a report you're doing for a grad class. Like, this is a real child. This is their baby. And coming from that, like that compassion and empathy and all that stuff. So, I love that… not being taken aback if parents ask questions. I love that piece of advice. What advice would you give to SLPs who know that they're going into a meeting where they know that the parent is not going to agree with them? Like whether maybe to reduce services or to cancel or they're not gonna qualify. What advice would you give to them so that the message is received and understood and so that, you know, there's less confrontation. 

00:09:15 Dr. Destiny: A hundred percent do your research. What I mean in that is, and I say this as a mental health professional who has done… the tools to determine services for families. Like a lot of times we can get caught in that standard robotic monotony of… we did the documentation, we do our summary, we looked at the scales, right? We looked at the T-scores, we looked at everything and we're like, yep, this doesn't appear to be an issue. And meanwhile, and I see this a lot with pragmatics in particular, where the parent is like, no, they are struggling in this area, they're struggling in this situation, they don't understand, they don't do this, this blah, blah, blah, right?

00;09:59 Dr. Destiny: So what I always say is just when you're putting it together and you recognize because you should, like you really should, you should have access to the parents concerns. You should have access to that. And if you're saying, okay, they said speech was an area of concern and they specifically are concerned about their social interactions with peers. Really look at when you are creating those… when you're doing those pragmatic language assessments and evaluations, look at where the areas that the parent might see is like, see, you said that was an issue and what is the support or tool that could be provided by the Gen Ed or Special Ed team outside of the SLP to justify not having that service. 

00:10:44 Dr. Destiny: I think that's the biggest kind of smooth over that I have to do when I go into the meetings because sometimes I'll review it. I'm like, yeah, I see exactly what they're saying. I see why they're saying this learner does not qualify for speech services or why this learner only needs consultation. I see this, but we don't tend to express that to the parent. And so we're not breaking down how, yes, you did this and yes, this doesn't meet the threshold, right, for services, but this is how we can address that. And a lot of times that's all the parent wants to know is that it can be addressed some way and that we can come back to the table if we don't see it improving through whatever's being provided. 

00:11:29 Dr. Destiny: And I think if SLPs came in with that approach of like, look, mom, I know you said this was a concern. This can be addressed through Gen Ed, whatever they're doing. I will consult with the teacher and continue to monitor it. We can always come back to the table. If that's an issue, I think it would go a lot smoother and parents would be like, okay, so this is not you just saying… Because a lot of times parents feel like you're saying they're crazy. And you're saying that like, no, that's not really an issue. That's not a thing. And you're not seeing that even though that's obviously not being said. And so I think coming from an end of that and it like, I get it. I understand this is what we're going to do. We can revisit it, will go a long way. 

00:12:12 Hallie: That was so helpful. That's so great. That's, I love it that you didn't say like, let's squash it and let's… just do what the parent says. Cause that's what people think is going to happen but instead coming to a different angle and approach. And I love that. What about… I want to touch upon writing neuroaffirming IEP goals. What can you say to SLPs that are – cause this is still new. This is still a transition to… this is not something that many of us learned in graduate school. So let's touch upon this and why is it so important? 

00:12:46 Dr. Destiny: Yeah. So, what I'll see with the goals, right, is I will see where you'll have an SLP. They'll do a great evaluation, have all the information, identify all the areas where I'm like, yes, this is where this learner is struggling. And then there'll be non-neuroaffirming goals. Why? Not because it's intentional, like you said, it's not what they learn. We have so many goal banks out there that I can't even fathom. Like you could go in and just type speech goal bank right now and 20,000 would come up.  We're also getting a lot of those automatic systems now, where a lot of schools are using automatic systems that have goals already populated in them, and you can just put them in to decrease the paperwork. Got it.

00:13:29 Dr. Destiny: When we talk about writing neuroaffirming goals, the reason they're important is because a lot of times, stereotypical goals, which are often compliance-based, do not consider the learner's autonomy and see them and their barriers as something that needs to be fixed instead of supported. And so when we look from a neuroaffirming standpoint, we're saying, okay, Destiny has a hard time entering into play with her peers. When she wants to play, not when we're making her play, when she wants to play, she doesn't know how to enter into the situation. She kind of bulldozes it, right? So we're like, obviously that's not helping her make friends. So we want to work with her to learn how to enter into play. 

00:14:14 Dr. Destiny: And so a neuroaffirming approach to that would be naturally modeling situations where you know, okay, Destiny loves dinosaurs and Hallie's playing with dinosaurs. So Destiny would probably wanna play with Hallie with dinosaurs. So you're like, Destiny, you wanna ask Hallie to play with dinosaurs, right? So you're giving her an opportunity where this is already something she enjoys, it's already taking place. Hallie wouldn't mind someone playing with her either. So we're allowing that versus the compliance-based approach would be that we're gonna have Destiny multiple times throughout the day, we're gonna have her enter into situations, show her how to play, tell her what to play. There can be times where it'll be like, we're gonna do it during art or we're gonna do it during legos when we know that Destiny loves legos and she likes to build her own thing and she doesn't wanna play with someone.

00:15:08 Dr. Destiny: So when we're talking about neuroaffirming, we're really just honoring the fact that people have individual choices. As adults, we don't always want to engage with other people. We don't always want to talk. We don't always want to interact. And it's giving children that same respect while recognizing that due to their neurotype, their approach to situations are different. And so there is a skill to be learned there, but we're still acknowledging that they can have a say in learning that skill and that they deserve that say.

00:15:43 Hallie: What have you seen in your advocacy work in terms of this? Have you had to make a lot of changes in IEPs, education to IEP teams? Like, what have you seen? I'm kind of curious.

00:15:55 Dr. Destiny: Yes, I have had to rewrite a lot of goals. Most of the time when parents come to me with goals or with IEPs, we are rewriting the goals. And what I have found again, and I think this just goes to neuroaffirming approach has really been brought into that SLP and OT space. It really has. And so whether or not the SLP or OT is actively using it, a lot of times they have heard about it and they have seen something. And somebody said something and lots of parents who are like, “Hey, have you heard of this?”

00:16:36 Dr. Destiny: So I found that a lot of my SLPs and OTs on the team that I'm on are not resistant to rewriting the goals. They are cautious because they know the system in which they work in has a different approach. And so they're constantly having to… there'll be back and forth, but not because they don't love the goal, but because the school is kind of like, “We write goals like this, right?” And the other side of that is I never like… I do what is called when I draft letters for my families, I have the original goal and I have the proposed goal. The reason I do that is because I want them to look at it and see, okay, because a lot of times compliance-based goals, they're meaning to address one thing, but they're addressing the other thing. 

00:17:29 Dr. Destiny: So you'll see a lot of goals where it's like the learner is going to stop doing this, but you want them to stop doing it because it's not safe. So then let's focus on supporting and creating the skill for the safe behavior, not just them stopping because if you're just stopping, you're not learning the skill.

00:17:55 Dr. Destiny: And so a lot of times when they can see both, then they go, “Oh yeah, because that is one”, or they'll say, “No, they don't have an issue with that, Dr. Huff. They have an issue with this. This is the barrier.” And I'm like, “Okay, so we can tweak it.” So it's always also a collaborative process. I want to make that clear. I don't come in like, your goal’s trash. Let’s rewrite because as somebody that's written goals for mental health, you know, like, first of all, that's not helpful, one. Two, I'm not working on the goal. I can rewrite it all day, but I'm not implementing it. So their input is very valuable into what they're seeing. So respecting them as a professional and how they're going to work on the goal.

00:18:25 Hallie: And I love that. Especially coming from someone now. Honestly, I'm out of the school system now for two plus years, but I was the only one on the team that was aware of neuroaffirming goals and practices. It was very hard when I was a lonely SLP on a lonely island and everyone else in the building and district wide is not there yet. And just the approaches and things like that. So everyone listening just note that, beware – make sure you are definitely following Dr. Destiny's Instagram. She's always sharing tips and things that you should be aware of because someone might come in with an advocate that wants this and you're aware of it and knowledgeable of it, it's not going to be as overwhelming and intimidating.

00:19:17 Hallie: What would you say to someone on that note, who is intimidated when they hear that an advocate is coming or an advocate is being used? What would you say on that front?

00:19:27 Dr. Destiny: So yeah, my mother and sister are educators and I have friends that are educators and I had a really good conversation about a year or so ago now with one of my friends who's a school psychologist. And she was just saying, yeah, like we get advocates that come in the meeting sometimes and it's a hindrance because they're coming in like, “This is what the family wants and this is what the family should get.” And we're like, “It's not that simple”. And so the first thing I always say is like, whenever I step into a meeting, I come in the meeting, like I'm listening and learning, right?

00:20:03 Dr. Destiny: I don't know the team. I'm learning the team. I only know what the parent has shared. I only know what I've seen in communication. And so I'm coming in with the thought process that everyone is a professional until you show me otherwise. And I know – and I want to be very clear, like I'm aware, and I say this, like there are bad apples, bad eggs, whatever you want to call it. I don't usually use the terms that are bad, but in every field. And so you are going to get advocates or is not a licensed or credentialed field, so to speak. There are trainings we can take. A lot of people become advocates from their own child's journey. And so approaches are different. And I have families that I have supported for the last several years that they came from another advocate and the approach wasn't beneficial for them.

00:20:50 Dr. Destiny: So I understand being cautious and nervous when an advocate is stepping into the meeting, but I would just say just treat everyone as a professional. And honestly, like I do as the advocate, you as a staff member can, you know, stand your ground in something that you feel like is valid, but also be mindful of collaboration. I think that's the only piece I have had meetings I've come into where the family's very intimidated.

00:21:16 Dr. Destiny: And so they want me to predominantly do the talking and the school will attempt to redirect from everything I say back to the family because they're like… you can tell that they're intimidated that I'm in the meeting and the family is like, well, “Dr. Huff answered that for us. That's what we discussed”. And I've been times where I've been almost cut out of the meeting essentially where it's like no communication is happening with me. I essentially have to chime in and speak, which I clearly have no problem doing. So, you know, it's just make it a collaborative space. I think what a red flag for me when I step in is just when you don't do that, when you're not collaborative, and when you are very resistant to anything that could come from my side of the table. 

00:22:06 Dr. Destiny: I'm always a little cautious at like, “What are you concerned about?” And I think that goes back to those preconceived ideas of what it is when an advocate comes in. I've had people who have said, “Yeah, I was told that the advocate would be like…” You were nothing like that. And I was like, well, every advocate is different. And that's part of the problem where you set up that barrier is when you have someone who has been doing it for 20 years and they're like, “Oh, I've had many advocates come to me. You just got to let them know who's boss.” And it's like, that's not my approach, that doesn't faze me. I'm going to keep saying what I have to say and keep advocating for my family and just put the learner to the forefront.

00:22:45 Hallie: I love that. I love that everyone is different. Everyone has different approaches and the collaboration – it really is. It is a committee. It's a committee decision. Like yes, SLPs want to say that we are the ones writing our goals. We're the ones making the decisions, but it is still a committee and it's all in the best interest of the students. You have to remember that there's a child, that's someone's baby in the end. You have to always just be mindful of that. Thank you so, so much, Dr. Huff. Where can everyone learn more about you and everything you have to offer?

00:23:15 Dr. Destiny: Yeah. So you guys can follow me on Instagram at @destinyhuff_iep_advocate. I'm also on Facebook at Destiny Huff Consulting. And then my website is www.destinyhuffconsulting.com.

00:23:31 Hallie: Thank you so, so much! We'll have links to all of that in the show notes. I always end my episodes with a joke since jokes build rapport and it is fun and funny and they are corny and it is what it is. Why did the little girl hit her birthday cake with a hammer?

00:23:51 Dr. Destiny: I don't know.

00:23:52 Hallie: It was a pound cake.

00:23:56 Dr. Destiny: I like stuff like that, so that works for me!

00:24:01 Hallie: Guys, my corny jokes are here every week. You don't have to miss them. If you like them, you can claim them as your own. I found them on Google, so it's not like I wrote them. I can't even take credit for them. So thank you so, so much, Dr. Huff. Go definitely go check her out on Instagram. And until next week, everyone, stay out of trouble.

00:24:25 Hallie: Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. It means the world to me that you're tuning in each and every week and getting the jolt of inspiration you need. You can find all of the links and information mentioned in this episode at my website, speechtimefun.com. Don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss any future episodes. And while you're there, it would mean the world to me if you would take a few seconds and leave me an honest review. See you next week with another episode full of fun and inspiration from one SLP to another. Have fun, guys.

00:25:07 Hallie: Hey there SLP, I have a quick question for you. What if you could have just one book on your shelf that actually gets the challenges of working with middle school and high school students? Well, it's here. Well, actually the pre-order is here, but hey, I'm so excited to let you know that my brand new book, The Secondary SLP Guide, is available for pre-order. And when you pre-order, you get an exclusive bonus that you won't wanna miss.

00:25:38 Hallie: It is packed with real talk strategies, quick tips and inspiration that you can use with your middle school and high school students all year long. This is the perfect book for a book club, a grad student group, or just flipping through when you're stuck and in a IEP writing spiral. So head to speechtimefun.com/preorder or head to my Instagram and send me a DM with the word pre-order and I will send you the link so you can pre-order now. And I cannot wait for you to get your hands on this book in November but the sooner you grab it the better the bonus.

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