318: SLP Role with Public Speaking

Show Notes:

In this episode of SLP Coffee Talk, Hallie chats with Karin Hartunian Koukeyan—a speech-language pathologist with 28 years of experience and founder of SpeechFit—about a topic that might surprise you: public speaking. Karin shares her winding SLP journey from bilingual child interpreter to telepractice pioneer to private practice owner, and dives into why SLPs are uniquely equipped to help clients (and colleagues!) overcome public speaking anxiety. From IEP meetings to parent nights to real estate presentations, this conversation is packed with practical strategies, an eye-opening look at communication coaching as a service offering, and a reminder that it's never too late to color outside the lines in your career.

Here's what we learned:

  • Public speaking anxiety affects up to 90% of people—and SLPs are uniquely equipped to help.
  • The pause is your most powerful tool. Say something, let it land, and resist the urge to fill the silence.
  • Frameworks and scripting train the brain to communicate more confidently—whether it's an IEP meeting or a big presentation.
  • Breath work, visualization, and role-playing are go-to strategies for taming nerves before and during a talk.
  • Adding dialogue to a story instantly makes it more engaging—try it with your middle and high schoolers too.
  • Communication coaching is a real and viable private practice offering for clients who need support but don't qualify for traditional services.

RESOURCES

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Learn more about Hallie Sherman  and SLP Elevate: 

JOKE OF THE WEEK:

Q: Why did the student bring a ladder to speech?

A: Because they were trying to take it to the next level.

Where We Can Connect: 

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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00 Hallie: Hey there, SLP friends. It is Hallie here popping in with the best news ever. My new book, Secondary SLP Roadmap, is officially available. If you've ever wished for a clear, practical guide for working with middle and high school students, this is it. It is packed with real stories, ready-to-use strategies, and tools you can use right away. Grab your copy now, check the link in the show notes, or search Secondary SLP Roadmap on Amazon, and then of course, please do me a favor, when you are reading it, snap a picture and tag me on Instagram @speechtimefun. I love seeing where you're diving in, the speech room, the couch, waiting in a doctor's waiting room, all the places. All right, ready? Go grab your copy and let's make secondary speech feel doable and fun. 

00:00:57 Hallie: Welcome to SLP Coffee Talk, the podcast designed exclusively for speech language pathologists who work with older students, grades 4 through 12. I am your host, Hallie Sherman, your SLP behind Speech Time Fun, the Speech Retreat Conference, and the SLP Elevate Membership, and I'm thrilled to bring you conversations, strategies, and insights that will give you the jolt of inspiration that you need. Whether you're tuning in during your morning commute, on a break in between sessions, or even during a well-deserved relaxation time, I am here for you each and every week. Let's do this, SLPs.

00:01:36 Hallie: Hey, hey, and welcome to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. Today, we're talking about a topic that you might not have thought about when it comes to being an SLP, and all about public speaking. And I have a guest here who's gonna be talking all about it. So, Karin, welcome to the show. 

00:01:53 Karin: Thank you so much for having me, Hallie. 

00:01:55 Hallie: Tell everyone listening a little bit about yourself and your SLP journey to what you are doing now, and how it relates to the topic we're going to be talking about.

00:02:04 Karin: I have actually been an SLP for 28 years. Every time I think about it, I cringe a little. I came to this because as a kid growing up, I was in a bilingual home, or actually multilingual home. My parents were first generation immigrants, or I'm actually a first generation immigrant, but I learned to speak English super early watching Sesame Street. It was interesting because I was like translating for my parents as a kiddo. And then I had cousins who couldn't speak my native language, which is Armenian, and I was translating for them. So I was like, okay, and trying to teach them how to say the sounds, like how to say certain sounds that we don't have in English. And so I was like a seven year old kind of being a little speechy, and I didn't even know it. 

00:02:46 Karin: Fast forward to college, I loved people, I wanted to work with people, I knew that much. I majored in psychology, loved it, but then I actually took a training on a suicide hotline, and that just terrified me so much. I was like, oh my gosh. I can't do this. But somebody suggested taking a linguistics class or a phonetics class, and I just fell in love. This was my area, and the rest is history. 

00:03:16 Hallie: I love that. 

00:03:17 Karin: Yeah, no, it was really great. My SLP journey has been a little bumpy. I think a lot of us have that bumpy journey. But I started off wanting to do a CF that taught me everything. Man, that year almost like did me in. And I've learned since then with our Facebook groups that I'm not alone. We didn't have that kind of support back then. There was no social media, so you really did feel like you were the only one in the world that was like, do I really want to do this? 

00:03:49 Karin: You know, those first IEP meetings were so hard. I felt like I was constantly being thrown under the bus before that was a thing. My administrators, my colleagues, it was so hard, and nobody prepared me for that. I was like, I'm just a sweet little person trying to help you, and why are you being so mean? 

00:04:09 Hallie: [crosstalk]. Why are you throwing me under the bus? 

00:04:12 Karin: And I ended up being in the schools initially. I loved it, and I actually was doing middle school before I had my own kids. Teenagers terrified me. I know your specialty is older students, so I just had to throw that in there. When I had my own kids, I was like, oh, my God, I love working with teenagers because they're not so scary. I have an 18-year-old and a soon-to-be 21-year-old, and I'm like, whoa, I did it. I love working with older students.

00:04:44 Hallie: What has been your favorite setting, age group, in your career thus far?

00:04:49 Karin: I ended up going into telepractice pre-pandemic. That's been kind of like a little side specialty as well. That was one of those things where I decided I didn't want to work. I had the privilege of taking a couple of years off. But I had friends constantly asking me for advice, and I was like, man, I'm giving away all this for free. Friends and friends of friends. Then it happened in 2010, I got an ad asking if I wanted to try online therapy. I was asking my husband, is this like a phishing scam? Am I going to lose my bank account? What's going on here?

00:05:28 Karin: It ended up being the best path less traveled by that I jumped in and I tried it and became a teletherapist and pretty much have done that. I started my own private practice last year, so late in my career. I want to encourage everybody that is questioning, is it too late? Is it this? Is it that? It is never too late. It was my timing. Since I've done that, I've gone back to doing hybrid. I'm doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that, Hallie. 

00:05:59 Hallie: I love that. 

00:06:00 Karin: I’m doing a little bit of– [crosstalk]

00:06:00 Hallie: [crosstalk]. You can do anything.

00:06:03 Karin: Exactly. And I love that. I love that I work with adults that are professionals that want public speaking. I'm working with little two-year-olds that are not putting two words together. I'm also working with some teenagers. I love it so much. I'm one of these people that I can't do one thing all the time. It's been a great journey.

00:06:26 Hallie: I love that. You mentioned public speaking. We're going to be talking about that here today. How did you get into that route and realm?

00:06:34 Karin: I had been doing… actually during my little career break, which doesn't feel like a true career break, when I had kids, my daughter was in a preschool and somehow we got to talking to the director. I ended up doing a public speaking/accent modification program for all of the teachers there. It was so rewarding. It was also the first time I started to really realize how important that is for folks that are not truly communication disorder labeled. But public speaking, we use it all the time.

00:07:12 Karin: So I started there. It was one of those things where it was a confidence builder for the teachers. Again, this dynamic between educators and parents. Parents can be scary. The parents were basically very concerned about the model that the teachers were providing for their kiddos. And so my job was to help make their communication stronger, more competent. It started there. I've had it as a side hustle as I've grown as an SLP. It's been interesting because it's come and gone and it's evolved.

00:07:50 Karin: I've found that it’s more about – it's kind of started off in the accent modification realm/public speaking and expanded from there because I've seen how important it is. I can't believe and I can't tell you how many SLPs and actually our sister fields too, school psychologists. I've had school psychologists approach and say, parents terrify us. We're supposed to do presentations for these parents and we don't know where to start. 

00:08:18 Karin: People are so comfortable in our field being trained to work one-on-one with kiddos, one-on-one with parents. That gets a little bit scary, but speaking in front of a parent on parent night or presentation, very, very scary. And I didn't realize the impact of this and who best to help than an SLP, a speech pathologist. So public speaking is actually technically a social anxiety disorder. It falls under the label of anxiety in those diagnostic books, but I firmly believe that speech pathologists are very well equipped to help.

00:08:57 Hallie: I would never think that. Share a little bit about some of the approaches and strategies that you've provided for others that can help someone listening wanting to help in their world.

00:09:06 Karin: It's a combination of strategies where you can talk about frameworks. Frameworks almost like scripting, but you follow a certain organized fashion. So, again, it depends on if you want to learn how to be more comfortable to talk impromptu at an IEP meeting, which is a different skill set than a presentation that you would present in front of an audience.

00:09:33 Karin: So, again, frameworks help with both actually, because once your brain is trained to follow a certain way of talking, it just becomes easier. The simplest, I think most effective takeaway that I've found is the pause. And by pause, I mean you speak a sentence and then you pause, you let it land. We are so trained to just kind of fill the silence, keep gabbing, sort of kind of rambling because we're nervous. But also parents and your audience just needs to listen and understand what you're saying. 

00:10:08 Karin: So strategies like that, but also some people physically have a reaction. And so like working on things like breath work to kind of regulate your body. There's been even celebrities that have been known to take beta blockers. I think the Golden Globes was on recently. By the time this airs, it'll probably be like a few months from now. But I was surprised even actresses have public speaking. There was an actress that went up there. She was definitely like referencing, I should have gotten my beta blockers, but I didn't. 

00:10:42 Karin: So people use that, but it's not for everyone. And not everyone wants that, right? So it's just, you know, regulating your nerves. There's things like visualization. If you are going to do a talk in front of an audience, I love to go into that empty room and just kind of get a lay of the land just being there standing in front and… it's empty chairs. But if you're able to do the presentation, they're great. A lot of people think just write everything down and read it. Reading is not the best, most effective way. So yeah, so there's so much. There's so many strategies and it kind of depends on what you're looking for.

00:11:21 Hallie: I'm sure you do some like role playing, especially for like an IEP meeting or having to have like a difficult conversation that someone's nervous about, like preparing for all the different scenarios that could happen. Like almost like what we would do with our social skills students, right?

00:11:36 Karin: Exactly. I do a lot of role playing with all kinds of professionals and I like to tap into exactly what they're going to be talking about. So yeah, with SLPs, IEP meetings is number one. Parents that do a lot of pushback. Of course, we've got like your typical parents that don't want dismissal. They want to just continue or they want to increase speech to five times a day, twice a day, you know, all of those difficult conversations that we were really not prepared when we graduate. I haven't really seen a whole lot of that training in grad schools continuing to happen.

00:12:15 Hallie: Speaking of which, where did you learn about this? And like were there any research articles, professional development? How did… or did you just trial and error? How did you figure out?

00:12:24 Karin: Yeah, there's definitely research that supports it. And like I said, it kind of falls under the psychology umbrella. However, it was a little bit of trial and error. And what I noticed was I loved working with accent modification again because I grew up in this multilingual home. It just came so naturally to me. Like I wanted to help people speak better. Like it or not, accent modification has become super controversial in our field. There's a lot of things that become very controversial and they have their seasons. 

00:12:55 Karin: What I noticed as I studied accent modification, there's actually a book written by one of our colleagues, Bob McKinney, you know, how to work on accent modification. But a lot of it is very similar to public speaking. It has to do with where you put your emphasis on your words, those super segmentals, a lot of work on vowels. 

00:13:17 Karin: So as I started to kind of think about this, I'm like, this is not any different. And really, somebody with an accent, we don't want to completely change who they are. So I started reevaluating all of that and getting some feedback just from clients and realizing it's not the accent. Yes, you can substitute TH for T and, you know, voiced TH for D and sound a little bit better. But it's more about where you're putting your pause. It's about intelligibility, making sure your communication partner understands you frequently. Like if you put the stress of a word. You know, we have so many words in English that are spelled exactly the same way, content. And then if you change the stress, content, we change the meaning. 

00:14:04 Karin: And so I started to kind of explore those things and realized, you know, it's more what public speaking is. It's emphasis, it's pausing. And then a lot of these people, and it's just a people problem. It's like, there's research that says it's about 75% of the population, but it could be upwards of 90%, that they suffer from public speaking anxiety, basically. So it's a very, very common problem. Mark Twain even said, there are only two types of speakers in the world, the nervous and the liars.

00:14:37 Hallie: Love that. Love that. When it comes to anxiety, what can anxiety really interrupt? Like what are the effects of anxiety? Can you go into that a little bit of how it can impact speakers and just people in general?

00:14:48 Karin: Anxiety can creep up on you so that you completely forget what you're saying, might completely black out. Or you end up like reading off of what you have, like maybe you've prepped and you're just reading, and you're not really connecting with your audience. So it's a missed opportunity, basically, where you're trying to say something, you have something really valuable to say your expertise, it just goes by the wayside.

00:15:14 Karin: But it can manifest physically. Like I said, it could be like upwards to the point where somebody would have like an anxiety or panic attack. Or it could just be to the point where they just black out and they don't remember what they said. They're not in the moment, essentially, when they're talking.

00:15:31 Hallie: Can you share a success story without like getting too many specific details of something that just sticks out in your mind of a client that you worked with and what they were able to overcome after working with you?

00:15:43 Karin: Yeah, absolutely. So I have a client who actually worked with folks, and I do work with people outside of SLPs, too. So this particular client is a real estate agent, and she identified herself as an introvert. But she also would get extremely anxious when she would need to speak to certain types of her clients. And so we talked about that. And she had to go do a presentation for older clients like seniors.

00:16:13 Karin: We talked about how important it is to kind of know your audience. Believe it or not, again, as SLPs, we take it for granted what we know. She hadn't realized that she needs to take into account the hearing impaired, the fact that there might be cognitive decline, that she would have to not only pause for them to understand her message, but perhaps because they're slower, they're going to need longer to process. Again, all these things that come so, so naturally to us as SLPs, and she was so grateful to learn that. 

00:16:45 Karin: There's another technique, too, that is super effective, and that's the use of dialogue. So you could tell the same story and just sort of narrate, like we tell our kiddos. You know, narration, tell the story, first, second, next, last, right? But you don't put any dialogue in there. Now tell the same story, but insert some dialogue. And the impact of that story is so powerful, and it completely changes. I've started using this with my high schoolers, with my middle schoolers. When you're doing a story, retell, use dialogue. So those two things were just so impactful for her. She was so grateful. I think she ended up getting some more clients because of it.

00:17:27 Hallie: And it's so interesting, because you said, you know, we know this as SLPs. But even us as SLPs, us giving presentations, our nerves and anxiety and people staring at you can make you forget those things that we know are true. 

00:17:40 Karin: Exactly. 

00:17:41 Hallie: And I love it. You mentioned like middle school and high schoolers, they're making presentations in class and they can benefit from these strategies as well.

00:17:49 Karin: Yeah, and I think it's a shame that we don't have the ability to qualify students for this, because I see this. You know, I worked at a high school through teletherapy in the fall, kind of filling for somebody that was on a leave. And that's a whole other episode, right, like working over teletherapy at a brick and mortar school. That is hard. So those, I feel like you really do need to just really reach in through the monitor and really connect with them. 

00:18:22 Karin: But it's about what connects to them inside, right, in their soul. And so a lot of these parents could tell that their kiddos needed something. And it's that presentation in the classroom piece that they can't quite get, but they don't really qualify on paper anymore. They don't qualify at the triennial. And I don't know. It just would be so nice if we could find a way to help these kids, because right around the corner is there… maybe a job interview if they want to get a job in high school, but then also college and then again, job interviews there, or interviews or presenting themselves so that they can't get into college or opportunities, all kinds of opportunities. 

00:19:07 Karin: We have a generation that's become so used to just DMing. They don't want to pick up the phone and talk. They want to text. They don't want to communicate. They don't even want to call to order their pizza. Actually, a lot of stores have quit even offering that. I tried to order dinner last night. And the message said, due to high demand, we would appreciate if you just order on the app. I'm like, oh, great.

00:19:33 Hallie: It's so true. I remember when I was first starting in the schools in high school, and the kids were leaving my room to go to the bathroom to call and order their lunch. Now they can just do it the day before from home on the app and have it delivered at a specific time. So there's so many things that they don't need. But even as you're talking, my daughter is presenting tomorrow in her TED Talks club, and we have to practice tonight. And I'm going to use some of these strategies to teach her how to prepare for her speech. 

00:19:58 Karin: Oh, amazing. 

00:19:59 Hallie: And, you know, of course, in the schools, you want to work with everyone. And we can't, but that's the benefit of a private practice. You can offer communication coaching as a service.

00:20:11 Karin: Exactly. And that's what led me to this, you know? Because schools are the bread and butter, and hopefully they will be for a long time, despite funding and cuts. Having that private practice has given that opportunity. Now I have parents, of course, word of mouth is, again, one of the strongest ways, but there are parents that are realizing, oh, my gosh. You do this. I'd love for you to work with my kiddo who is going to do this presentation. So sometimes we work for just a short time. A lot of times, it's just a couple of weeks here and there.

00:20:42 Karin: But yeah, I mean, it's a season in their life. And then once they know they can take that, a lot of these… I know from my daughter's friends, there's kids that it comes naturally to them, just like it came naturally to their parents. Maybe they're in speech and debate, they do all these things, and they get this. But there's the kids that are terrified to even sign up for speech and debate. So how are they going to get those opportunities? How are they going to learn? And so yeah, having a communication coaching program or a communication coach for a short term, definitely could be useful for those folks.

00:21:17 Hallie: Anyone listening, if you're trying to build a private practice, do something different on the side, and you don't want it to be the same as your, you know, normal everyday stuff, like being… thinking about reaching out to real estate agents, reaching out to schools saying, hey, if there's any kids struggling with this. I love that. What advice would you give to someone who's now intrigued and wanting to learn more and wanting to offer this service for their clients?

00:21:42 Karin: I would love a conversation with this person. They can reach out to me. I do offer some one-on-one coaching on how to even build this type of side hustle, so to speak. I also encourage anyone listening, whatever stage you're at, it's not too late. Do start exploring things if you're not happy where you're at. I also love to tell early career professionals, lessons learned, don't stay in your lane, and be sure to color out of the lines now and then. It doesn't serve you to always stay in your lane and stay within the lines, that's for sure. And I learned that with a lot of pain. So I don't want others to have that too.

00:22:24 Hallie: I love that. Where can everyone learn more about you and everything you have to offer, such as your coaching and stuff?

00:22:30 Karin: You can find me on Instagram, speechfitslp. I also have a website, speechfitslp.com. I'm also on LinkedIn under my name, Karin Hartunian Koukeyan, as well as my company name, SpeechFit. So yeah, I look forward to connecting with folks.

00:22:46 Hallie: And we'll have links to everything in the show notes, so not to worry. Okay. I always end my episodes with a joke, so I figured why not do one about, you know, something related to this. Why did the student bring a ladder to speech? 

00:23:06 Karin: Gosh, I have no idea. 

00:23:08 Hallie: Because they were trying to take it to the next level.

00:23:11 Karin: Oh, nice. Yeah, I love it. 

00:23:14 Hallie: Badum ching, guys. I was trying. It's what ChatGPT came up with. I said, give me a joke about, you know, public speaking. 

00:23:23 Karin: You gotta love ChatGPT. Got a lot of sense of humor.

00:23:27 Hallie: Thank you, Karin, so much for sharing a topic that we've never discussed before. And I think so many people are probably having their wheels turning. Because I have so many people reaching out to me saying, you know, I'm thinking about starting a private practice, any recommendations. This is just another offering that people can utilize, whether it is on the side or to build their private practice. So thank you so much for bringing this new opportunity into everyone's forefront and making everyone more aware of what different things that we can work on with our students, or even just different clientele in general. So thank you so much.

00:23:57 Karin: Yeah, thank you for having me, Hallie. Appreciate it. 

00:24:00 Hallie: And until next week, everyone, stay out of trouble.

00:24:08 Hallie: Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. It means the world to me that you're tuning in each and every week and getting the jolt of inspiration you need. You can find all of the links and information mentioned in this episode at my website, speechtimefun.com. Don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss any future episodes. And while you're there, it would mean the world to me if you would take a few seconds and leave me an honest review. See you next week with another episode full of fun and inspiration from one SLP to another. Have fun, guys.

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