336: A human Approach to Stuttering and Neurodiversity

Show Notes:

In this episode of SLP Coffee Talk, Hallie chats with Ana Hernandez—SLP and founder of Adult Stuttering—about why she ditched fluency therapy and never looked back. Ana breaks down the adaptation effect, why you can’t sit in the middle ground, and what it actually looks like to run an affirming stuttering session from start to finish. If stuttering has always felt like uncharted territory, this one’s your map.

Here's what we learned:

  • You can’t tell a kid their stutter is okay and drill fluency strategies in the same session.
  • Fluency strategies don’t fail because the student didn’t try hard enough—they’re just unreliable by design.
  • Safety comes before progress. Some kids need the whole session just to feel okay being in the room.
  • “Stutter” is not a bad word. “Bumpy speech” is out.
  • If you’re shifting away from fluency therapy, just tell your student. Kids love honesty.

RESOURCES

🎤✨ The Speech Retreat is Back! Learn more and register here!
https://www.speechretreat.com

📘✨ Grab your copy of The Secondary SLP Roadmap here! https://www.speechtimefunpd.com/stf-book 

Learn more about Hallie Sherman  and SLP Elevate: 

Learn more about Ana Hernandez:

JOKE OF THE WEEK:

Q: Why don't eggs tell jokes?

A: They'd crack each other up.

Where We Can Connect: 

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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00 Hallie: Quick break SLPs, The Speech Retreat is back. It's the virtual professional development event that is actually fun. Think about it. Raffles, laughs, a virtual photo booth, and real world ideas that you can use the very next day for preschool through high school. Six different speakers that actually get it and are talking about topics that are relevant to you. Earn CEUs live, join PDHs on replays, and connect with the community of SLPs who love what they do. Don't miss it. Learn about the next event, the date, the speakers, and more at thespeechretreat.com.

00:00:44 Hallie: Welcome to SLP Coffee Talk, the podcast designed exclusively for speech language pathologists who work with older students, grades 4 through 12. I am your host, Hallie Sherman, your SLP behind Speech Time Fun, the Speech Retreat Conference, and the SLP Elevate Membership. And I'm thrilled to bring you conversations, strategies, and insights that will give you the jolt of inspiration that you need. Whether you're tuning in during your morning commute, on a break in between sessions, or even during a well-deserved relaxation time. I am here for you each and every week. Let's do this SLPs.

00:01:25 Hallie: Hey, hey, and welcome to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. Today, I have Ana Hernandez here and we're going to be talking all about stuttering and I know you're going to love the conversation we're having here today. So Anna, welcome to the show.

00:01:37 Ana: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

00:01:40 Hallie: Tell everyone listening about yourself and your SLP journey to what you are doing these days.

00:01:45 Ana: Yeah, so I am Ana Hernandez. I'm an SLP. I specialize in stuttering and I hyper specialize in adults who stutter. I felt like it was a pretty underserved, very niche within a niche area. So here we are. And I'd love to tell the story of how it began in a bit, but well, I think of this stuff as the boring stuff.

00:02:06 Hallie: Not at all. I love the whys and like…

00:02:09 Ana: Oh! Oh, yes, I love the why. So like, let me run through my… the stuff that I would normally skip in a podcast. I run my private practices adult stuttering. And I speak at conferences. I'm very close with the NSA. I do professional trainings for schools for businesses. I coach SLPs. I run a… I'm a global partner with a blank center. So I run the Camp Dream. Speak. Live. in Chicago, which is incredible, a really cool project. And how I got into stuttering for adults, it was pandemic times, right before the pandemic. And I was already an SLP. I kind of like even being an SLP, I kind of just was like, all right, sure, I'll do that. So I'm slightly suggested and I was like, yeah, cool. I'll do that, I guess. So I did. 

00:02:58 Ana: And then the pandemic was near, but we didn't know what it would be. And a childhood friend, I grew up in Texas, a childhood friend reached out and said, “Hey, like you're a speech therapist.” He's a person who stutters. And he said, “I moved cities and now I had a speech therapist and now no one will take me in my new town. What can I do?” And I was like, “Oh, no. I'm so sorry. That's terrible. Let me think of someone.” But then I moved on with my life. And then the pandemic is really coming in. I think it was like the week before when we like thought… we heard rumors that certain things might close down.

00:03:36 Ana: This is before pandemic, but before pandemic, I was being social and I ran into a girl and we were in a group setting. Everyone just kind of mentioned what they did because we were all just meeting. And later on, the girl and I are alone and she begins to cry and I am like, “Are you, are you okay? Like what's going on here?” And it turns out that she was a person who stutters and she heard that I was an SLP. And she just had no… she was so intensely covert. She was so good at hiding her stutter. She had her fiancé at the same event. He didn't know.

00:04:14 Hallie: No.

00:04:17 Ana: And that story is not rare.

00:04:19 Hallie: Wow. 

00:04:20 Ana: Yeah. Yeah. So I had two in a row pretty close together where it was a situation of, you know, they… it takes so much vulnerability to seek support, to seek any form of help, to do something for yourself. And this is something that is so highly stigmatized. And so in my head, people have to work up their self-worth so much. They have to raise it – We do a lot of work to raise their self-worth and their self-esteem to a level where they feel worthy of help. And once you do that, you go knocking on doors of different professionals, the professionals meant to help you. And they kept getting declined everywhere they went because either SLPs didn't know what to do with stuttering or they were so pediatric, they really, really didn't know what to do with stuttering in an adult. And that was a really a story that I… didn't sit well with me.

00:05:17 Hallie: Wow. That's so amazing. That's how you started this. And then with the pandemic, you went virtual and…

00:05:24 Ana: Yeah. So I took a whole year to learn because stuttering is like we were generally underprepared and it's also changed so much. So I actually love the timing of this podcast because I think people are finally catching… SLPs are finally catching when that stuttering is changing, but then we run into new problems, right? So I took a full year to learn and then I established my company, Adult Stuttering in 2021.

00:05:50 Hallie: Wow. And everyone listening is probably like, okay, wow, you're a pediatric person. And I get that. But when you think of secondary students, they're almost adults and we have to kind of have that mentality of their future and things like that. So what advice can you give to SLPs who are thinking like these are almost adults? What are some things that we should be aware of when we're thinking about preparing these students for adulthood?

00:06:19 Ana: Yeah. I think now the general pool of SLPs, most SLPs now know that within stuttering, we're no longer focusing on fluency. They know that we should follow this kind of like quote unquote, “acceptance model,” which my only thing with that is something that someone I really admire said, Dr. Courtney Byrd, who began the Blank Center, is an incredible, incredible, incredible, incredible. She once said, within the word acceptance that inherently suggests that something was rejected. So the goal is to work to a place where nothing is rejected to begin with because the stigma doesn't really exist.

00:07:00 Hallie: Love that. I really do love that.

00:07:03 Ana: So, generally everyone is a bit more informed on being accepting of stuttering and training kids to be really empowered and to be knowledgeable about stuttering. But I think SLPs right now are very stuck between A, I know that this is generally what I should do, but what exactly do I do? I don't have a roadmap, I don't know what I'm doing here. So SLPs feel a bit lost here. Two, parents ask for fluency. The kids themselves ask for fluency. Teachers and other professionals assume that you would get fluency. 

00:07:36 Ana: And what a lot of SLPs are doing is they want to be affirming because they now know about it and they want to be you know, supportive SLPs, but they also don't quite know what to say to parents or to say to kids or, you know, they feel like they're maybe betraying or abandoning years of, you know, we didn't get a lot of stuttering training, but there is a lot of like, older research that we kind of are shifting to the side. And so people find themselves in the middle. And that's a tough place to be because you can't be in the middle. You just can't.

00:08:14 Ana: If you tell a child, a teen and adult, anyone that it is okay to stutter and that you love the way that they talk, but at the same time, you're giving them these strategies that are meant to cover up or really effortly have them conceal their stutter, for lack of better words, then that's a direct contradiction. So that middle ground is where a lot of SLPs are right now, but you can't be in the middle. The long term the long-term well-being, the long-term self perceptions, long-term confidence, basically, the long-term robustness of their life, how much they thrive is stronger when you go fully affirming.

00:09:01 Hallie: So interesting. What has been the mindset of the adults that are coming to you.

00:09:08 Ana: Oh. So people assume that I get like these adults that are like, “Hey, I'm so ready to stutter openly. I'm so ready to do all these things, like self-disclose. I'm ready to join communities.” That is not who I get. I get adults that come to me and say, “Hey, I stutter, fix me.” And yeah. And so then we go through a talk. Not everyone is a good fit for me, but I'm also private pay. So not everyone's a good fit for me for that reason. And they come to me and I tell them the reality of kind of the lay of the land. And people generally say, “Okay, I understand.” So this is what we're going to,” and it's hard for them. And I kind of guide them through it.

00:09:57 Ana: But I like to think of it this way. Let's say you go to your doctor. Let's say you go to your doctor for… you have diabetes and you say you're a recent diabetic. I don't know that much about diabetes. I don't know why I use this. 

00:10:12 Hallie: It's all good. I don't either.

00:10:13 Ana: Right. I don't. So I'm going to say something wrong. Don't get mad at me. But you go, you have diabetes, you go to the doctor and you say, “Hey, give me this pill so that I can eat whatever I want and never track anything, not really think about it at all. I Just take the pill in the morning.” Your doctor is going to say, “Hey, that is not how it works.”

00:10:32 Hallie: You eat, too. [inaudible]

00:10:35 Ana: Here's what diabetes actually is like and this is what we do and this is how you actually live a robust life with it, live as robust of a life as you want to with it. And so I think as SLPs, we're a bit of people pleasing, maybe a tad.

00:10:52 Hallie: Maybe a little more than a tad. Guilty as charged, but okay.

00:10:57 Ana: We're all guilty. And I think we forget that we're the experts. When you go to a doctor and say, “This is what I want.” Hey, that's not how it works. You go to the doctor and say, “I've got this going on.” Then they tell you what to do and what your options are. So that's what I do with my clients. And I say, “I understand why you assume that stuttering therapy is to come in, work on strategies.” They also think that they'll come in, work on strategies and never stutter again. That's not how it would work. 

00:11:27 Ana: Strategies are really effortful, really unreliable.  And at the end of the day, it's not a matter of if strategies will fail, it's when. And when they do, the person trained to use them feels guilty, like they didn't try hard enough, like something was wrong, right? That's not good. That's not good. So that's why we don't do strategies. And there's something called the adaptation effect. We might get to that, but might not. So Google that later. 

00:11:51 Ana: So, I… People come to me wanting fluency because that's what they assume it's for. And I say, I understand why that's what you want, but this is the reality of what we'll be doing instead. And this is why very traditional, like if you think of decades of speech therapy focus on fluency and focus on strategies, this is the reality of what that would look like. And this is the reality of how much effort it would continuously take and how unreliable they are and the long term quality of life, mental health, like effects of it. And guess what? People generally say, okay, let's do it your way. And it's like, yeah, I know. 

00:12:35 Hallie: I told you so. 

00:12:36 Ana: I know. And I do still have clients who like… some of my clients that I've like gone through my stuff and let's say there are several sessions in and they can't, people do need to have the chance to mourn the idea of fluency, mourn this dream of suddenly they find some magic thing and they no longer stutter again. And you can allow them to mourn that. 

00:12:58 Ana: So, a client every once in a blue moon will say, “Hey. I know I understand the logic of everything that we're doing, and I'm definitely thinking about stuttering a lot less. I'm definitely a lot better in my mental state, but I really, really, really want to try fluency strategies.” So if it's that case, then I'll say, all right, let's do it. So we do, and I say, okay, so this is what it is. We practice it. And then they go off. And I say, do this and this. And then they come back a week later and they say that this is… sometimes within the same session, they're like, this is silly. I'm like, yeah.

00:13:32 Hallie: Like, I told you so.

00:13:34 Ana: I know. I know. Learn your own lesson. But I think advice for SLPs, anytime I give a training, I ask SLPs. I know you're overwhelmed. I know you're busy and you've got…. we've got such a wide breadth of what we have to be experts in. Two things. If you hear a person speaking and they're a person who stutters so you hear them stuttering openly, pay very close attention to how your body feels, reacts, how your thoughts feel, react. If it is anything but listening to your story buddy, glad you're taking your time, glad you're chatting, really if it's anything outside of cool, then you've got some work to do within your own self a bit. 

00:14;26 Ana: Maybe listen to a stuttering podcast. There's a big plethora of stuttering organizations that you can follow, people who stutter that you can follow on Instagram. We can passively learn nowadays, right? You have to be truly at peace with the sound of someone stuttering. That's a good step one for anyone that really wants to specialize in this. For someone who is a school SLP and they've got 100 kids, maybe they're not going to take a lot of effort into this. But-

00:14:53 Hallie: I mean, they might.

00:14:56 Ana: You never know. Yeah, you never know.

00:14:58 Hallie: They're listening here right now. So…

00:14:59 Ana: Yeah, yeah, you never know. So that's a really good one. And separately, at the end of the day, I think for any form of neurodivergence, we want to take a human approach. And I know that might sound silly. But, at the core, we all deserve the dignity and whatever is happening, it's just a different form of a human experience. It's just variety. So are we okay with that variety, that contrast of how this sounds and the human experience? We all want connection. We all want dignity. 

00:15:33 Ana: And stuttering, I think the big thing that I talk about with with stuttering my perspective on it is that if the way that you grew up, you would naturally just chat and the way that you naturally chat includes stuttering. And people around you maybe raise eyebrows, maybe interrupt you, maybe say take a deep breath, say it again, try again, use your strategies. Even though it's all very well-meaning, slowly you're very invalidated by the way that you naturally speak. And through outside experiences, you learn that the way that you speak isn't okay. So then speaking begins to feel dangerous.

00:16:13 Ana: So, being in a classroom may feel so dangerous to a student because they have no idea if they'll be called to read. They have no idea… popcorn reading. Most of people who stutter hates popcorn reading. They hate saying their name. [crosstalk] They hate introducing themselves. Yeah. So that begins to feel dangerous. So, like when we're asking kids to stutter openly and when we're asking them to even like, hey, watch this video of a same age peer who happens to stutter and they are just chatting away, all of this could feel really dangerous to our students. Like, their entire body goes into fight and flight. And you’d have no idea where they are on this. So be very human in that what you're asking of them may feel so uncomfortable through no fault of their own.

00:17:01 Hallie: Wow. Yeah. That's so like, we really need to be so much more mindful. Like even – oh my goodness, like you just said, like, hey, watch this video. Like, this is normal. Like we mean well… we can be causing so much more harm.

00:17:17 Ana: Yeah. And so sometimes even sitting in a room, let's say, because let's be realistic in the schools, for example, let's say you've got a group of four, you've got a language kid to our tick kids and one fluency student. It could be that… they all know why they're there generally, kind of. Sometimes, the kindergartners have no idea.

00:17:36 Hallie: We remind them often.

00:17:38 Ana: No idea. And you're like, dude, we work on the same matter every time. But just being in that room for the kid who stutters may feel so dangerous to them. This could be their first time being in a room where it is okay to stutter, that it could take some time just to get used to feel safe, then get used to the idea of being safe, then be warmed up enough to actually participate in all this stuff.

00:18:09 Hallie: Wow. So interesting. Oh my goodness. And I'd love to touch on, you know, I remember even in graduate school, we learned about counseling piece of stuttering. Can we talk about how SLPs get lost in that stuttering piece, the counseling piece and what they should be doing instead?

00:18:29 Ana: Yeah, I think, I think going back to safety, like, hey, how does – the checking in, making sure – everyone wants dignity. Everyone wants autonomy. So anything that we introduce to kids, there's something called the five stages of behavioral change. It's something borrowed from therapy-therapy for lack of better wording. I don't know.

00:18:50 Hallie: Some guy in the olden days.

00:18:52 Ana: Right. In the olden days, FOUR score and 74 years ago. If you Google five stages of behavioral change, you'll find it. Stage one is you have no idea there is a problem where you see no benefit to change. Two is like you start to see the benefit to change. Three, you're like, I will make a plan that feels fine. Four is action. Five is maintenance. There's a lot to it. You'll go through them out of order. You're going to regress. That's natural. But if you push through them all once, regress. Push through them all again. It gets easier and easier to go through them. So even changing your minds about something, you will go through those five stages.

00:19:30 Ana: So I would kind of gauge where kids are on certain things. And so I would sometimes introduce ideas like, “Hey, one day we might do this. We don't have to do it today, but just know that it exists.” And you've placed that student in stage one for whatever thing that you're going to explore. And oh my God, you asked about counseling. So I actually have like… I actually do have a brain injury. And so like, I forget about that. And I forget that it's a big deal. Yeah. I like… brain surgery three years ago. Yeah. People are really interested in that. And I forget about it, which is good.

00:20:06 Ana: But on the counseling piece, there's no checklist. It's just kind of gauging. Like, do you feel… Sometimes kids just want to talk about it. And if they don't want to talk about it, they just don't want to feel like they're alone in the experience. So find videos, find different ways to show kids that they are not the only person. And if they're reluctant to do something, maybe they don't feel safe yet to do that thing. And with the counseling, like I love to start every session with a positive speaking moment where it can be really any good thing communication-wise that they enjoyed since they last saw me. And that starts to set these seeds of like highlights of communication, meaning not all communication is bad, not all talking is bad.

00:20:53 Hallie: I love that we need them to feel safe versus forcing them to talk, like we need to be forcing them to have that counseling session with us like, how do you feel today? Like, I love that.

00:21:03 Ana: And that’s weird.

00:21:04 Hallie: Yeah, it is weird.

00:21:05 Ana: Just be weird, like what do you want? Yeah.

00:21:07 Hallie: I went into a room that I don't want to be in. I don't want to be talking about something I don't want to talk about. I'm gonna shut down and I'm gonna rebel and I'm gonna do anything but do what you want me to do. So I don't blame them. I would love to bounce back because like you said the five steps or the step one was what? For the…

00:21:22 Ana: You see no benefits to change or are not aware of the problem, one. Two, you begin to see how change would benefit you. Three, you create a plan. Four, action. Five, maintenance.

00:21:41 Hallie: Love that. Okay, cause we want these students to feel safe, but we're going to have them work towards their goals and what would you recommend is the direction or how should we be explaining this to the students in front of us of where we're going from here?

00:21:59 Ana: So if you're currently – I love to be very human with all of my kids, all of my adults, all of my kids. If you were previously doing fluency strategies, be very human with your kid and say, “Hey, this is what we were doing, and we really thought that's what was best, but now we've learned something else, and this is what we're doing. Here's this new way to do things.” Be like, “Hey, I thought I was doing what was best. Turns out there's something healthier. Let's explore this, and we're both learning together.” Kids love that.

00:22:33 Ana: And kids honestly should see adults – not admit to making mistakes. You didn't make a mistake, you were doing what you thought was best, but acknowledging and changing course and adjusting to new knowledge. People get really resistant on accepting new knowledge. And that's just the way that our brain works. There's a lot of neuroscience to that, but it's really important. And one thing that before I forget, because I will forget, it is so important to change the way that you talk about stuttering. Do not use bumpy speech. Stutter is not a bad word. We've stigmatized the word stutter. Bumpy speech is gone. Break up with them. Send that text now. Bumpy speech is done. Stutter is not a bad word.

00:23:24 Hallie: Throw it in the garbage and light it on fire.

00:23:25 Ana: Light that garbage on fire.

00:23:27 Hallie: Stage the room. All the things.

00:23:30: And no longer use the words that stutter is getting better, getting worse. No, no. Stuttering is neutral. You can stutter more, you can stutter less. Your stutter can be more present, less present. It ebbs and flows, but it's not better or worse to stutter more or less.

00:23:48 Hallie: I love that. You mentioned earlier, and you wanted to make sure we, I want to make sure we cover it. Was it, was it adaptability? What was the term you used before? What? No. Like it was some sort of strategy or…

00:24:02 Ana: Oh, adaptation effect.

00:24:03 Hallie: Yes, that one.

00:24:04 Ana: Yes, yes, yes, yes. So the adaptation effect, I'll go through it as fast as I can. We’ll see. So the adaptation effect is essentially like your brain will naturally adapt to its environment. And I'm explaining this wrong, probably, but Google it. The adaptation effect explains why within the sterile therapy room environment, a fluency strategy will make a person more fluent in that environment. Your brain has adapted to that environment, to that conversation partner, to those conversations. Anything that your brain has done repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, your brain gets so much more efficient at doing it. So being in that environment, your brain is very efficient at that. So in that sterile environment, yeah, your brain can adapt and like, it's practiced those fluency strategies so you are more fluent.

00:24:49 Ana: But your brain is adapted to that sterile environment. As soon as you change environments, your brain is not adapted to that. So what we're seeing and like people, it's a common story that people go out to real life and fluency strategies aren't working the way that they expected. And that's because they're very imperfect. Your brain was adapted to that environment and therefore was doing everything more efficiently, including creating the motor processes for speech. But it wasn't the strategy that was magical.

00:25:20 Hallie: Oh, so interesting. Could you share a success story with one of your adult clients, like that something just stands out about their breakthrough or how, you know, they both come like – I'd love to just hear it like a story.

00:25:37 Ana: Yeah. So I, and first of all, I have clients that do anything you can think of for a living. I have clients that do it. I have chefs. I've got, of course, like a lot of corporate people. I have a music artist. Like we have, everything there. And this one person, they were very motivated, they were a chef. They were very motivated to just talk, essentially. He would create the menus and he would create menus only with ingredients that he felt he could say without stuttering, because he knew he had to he would have to present that menu to countless people again and again and again and again. So not only was he not speaking freely, he wasn't cooking freely and like working freely.

00:26:18 Ana: So he saw me, I think, a total of six times and that was it. I don't think we need to be in stuttering therapy forever. If you've got a few things, if my framework is like, if you've got safe space within your own self, meaning your self talk is healthy, safe space within a close inner circle, meaning you've taught your inner support group how to be supportive of you, and you've got a safe space within community, meaning other people who stutter – once you've got all three, I think you're set and you're generally – my goal is for them not to need me again.

00:26:48 Ana: So, where he's doing really well in his thought homework. He's warming up to community. And we're working on stuttering on purpose, not for desensitization, for exploration, because it is very different to explore and play with something in a way that's safe. Kids learn through play. They play when they feel safe. That's what we do in my stuttering therapy versus like exposure therapy and desensitization, you're like out there out of your like feeling of safety, out of your comfort zone. Too far. That feels dangerous. We could be adding trauma. So I'm very big on exploring, not exposing people. 

00:27:32 Ana: So we were exploring, stuttering on purpose. He'd had some time to get used to it because he'd gone through… he was at the stage where he was ready for the action. And so we're in session and like, we're gonna chat and I'm gonna toss in a couple of purposeful stutters and he's welcome to join in. We're going back and forth and he can toss one in whenever we want. And then we take a pause and I said, “Did you toss one in? I couldn't tell.” So I tell people you can make it as tiny as you want. It doesn't have to be giant. And he was like, “I did it, but let's do it again and we will.” And so we do it again. And he really tries this time and he shuts, he begins to cry. He shuts down and we end up having to end that activity because it was a much bigger deal to him than he realized. 

00:28:16 Ana: And he took, with those stages, it's always okay to take a few steps back. It's completely okay. We stay within what feels safe, and that no longer felt safe. So, he took time to… we took us a few steps back. Eventually, he was ready. And eventually, I think after his sixth session with me, he went to a social group that I hold here in Chicago, and then he was done. He took six sessions and that was it.

00:28:44 Hallie: Wow. And I love it that you do it through play and we want them to feel safe and that whole piece about safety and not making the pressure of like the forced… Yeah. Stutter and things like that. So interesting. So amazing. I love what you are doing. Where can everyone learn more about you and everything you have to offer?

00:29:03 Ana Thank you so much. I'm on Instagram a lot. My Instagram is @adultstuttering. My private practice name is Adult Stuttering. My website is www.adultstuttering.com. You can also email me at ana, A-N-A, ana@adultstuttering.com.

00:29:27 Hallie: Easy to remember. I love it.

00:29:28 Ana: Easy to remember and I do have a freebie for everyone. I know that there have been big changes in stuttering and people are so lost with what to do. So I've got a list of free goals for you. I right now run a group for like a cohort of adults who stutter, whether they're getting therapy elsewhere or not. Essentially, we work on this framework that makes them feel safe, that ensures that their thoughts are getting healthier, that they're no longer ruminating so much. And all that can be found on my website and on my Instagram.

00:30:03 Hallie: Awesome. I'll have links to everything in the show notes. Ana, thank you so so much. I always end my episodes with a joke since it builds rapport and it's just a lot of fun. And since SLPs are listening to this on a Monday morning, they can steal it, use it with their students. And this is appropriate since you just talked about a chef. I did not plan this, guys. Why don't eggs tell jokes?

00:30:23 Ana: Because they'll crack?

00:30:25 Hallie: Close. They'd crack each other up.

00:30:27 Ana: Oh, that's a good one.

00:30:30 Hallie: That was not even planned, guys, with the whole chef and the eggs. I had that ready to go. Thank you, Ana, so, so much for sharing your expertise, your passion, and all your knowledge with us. I know everyone listening is going to get so much value out of this. Go reach out to Ana, let her know what takeaways you had. And keep listening back and keep tuning in each and every week, guys. I have not missed an episode since 2020 when I started my podcast. True facts. So everyone, I will be here again next week. Until next week, everyone, stay out of trouble.

00:31:08 Hallie: Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. It means the world to me that you're tuning in each and every week and getting the jolt of inspiration you need. You can find all of the links and information mentioned in this episode at my website, speechtimefun.com. Don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss any future episodes. And while you're there, it would mean the world to me if you would take a few seconds and leave me an honest review. See you next week with another episode full of fun and inspiration from one SLP to another. Have fun, guys. 

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