339: The Role of SLPs in 5th-Year Transition Programming

Show Notes:

In this episode of SLP Coffee Talk, Hallie's back with returning guest Shelby Davis, a school-based SLP at Community High School in Teaneck, NJ, and a doctoral candidate at Monmouth University. Shelby's diving into the 5th-year transition program she's helping build for students on the spectrum and others with complex learning needs — designed to bridge the gap between high school and real independence. From vocational skill-building to community partnerships, Shelby walks through how the program came together, what SLPs can offer beyond the classroom, and how any SLP can bring these strategies into their own practice, transition program or not.

Here's what we learned:

  • There's almost no existing research on 5th-year transition programs — which is part of why Shelby's building her doctoral work around it
  • Real-world self-advocacy starts small: affirmation flashcards students can lean on when asking for help at a register or counter
  • Admin buy-in came down to a clear proposal — mock curriculum, funding, staff certifications, not just an idea
  • Parents said yes faster than expected — once they saw the goal was independence, not delay
  • Bottom line for older students: treat them like people, not projects — connect to their interests first

Want to hear more from Kathleen? Listen to her previous guest appearance in Episode 210: Supervisor/Grad Student Relationship with Shelby Davis and Kathleen Caruso

RESOURCES

📘✨ Grab your copy of The Secondary SLP Roadmap here! https://www.speechtimefunpd.com/stf-book 

Learn more about Hallie Sherman  and SLP Elevate: 

Learn more about Shelby Davis: 

JOKE OF THE WEEK:

Q: Why did the student bring glue to class?

A: Because they wanted to stick to their studies.

Where We Can Connect: 

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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00 Hallie: Hey there, SLP working with grades 4 through 12. New school year, new you. Let's not go into this school year feeling overwhelmed and behind on paperwork. Let's not worry about students asking why they are coming to speech. Let's not have students shrugging their shoulders and looking at you saying, why am I here? I don't want to be here. Let's instead have your students excited to come to speech, ready to take on the challenges you provide and make massive progress towards their goals. 

00:00:31 Hallie: If you are ready to make this school year the year that you leave work promptly at the end of the day, plan in an hour or less a week and go into every session confident that your students will grasp the session objectives, then SLP Elevate is just what you need to make this school year a successful one. Either go to slpelevate.com or send me a DM on Instagram with the word club, c-u-l-b, and we can discuss if SLP Elevate is right for you and your students. Now is the time to get your time back and now is the time to get your students excited to come to speech. SLP Elevate is perfect for you. 

00:01:14 Hallie: Welcome to SLP Coffee Talk, the podcast designed exclusively for speech-language pathologists who work with older students, grades 4 through 12. I am your host, Hallie Sherman, your SLP behind Speech Time Fun, the Speech Retreat Conference, and the SLP Elevate membership, and I'm thrilled to bring you conversations, strategies, and insights that will give you the jolt of inspiration that you need. Whether you're tuning in during your morning commute, on a break in between sessions, or even during a well-deserved relaxation time, I am here for you each and every week. Let's do this SLPs.

00:01:55 Hallie: Hey, hey, and welcome to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. Today, I have Shelby Davis here, who's a returning guest. So, Shelby, welcome to the show. 

00:02:06 Shelby: Thank you for having me back. 

00:02:08 Hallie: Of course. Tell everyone listening who you are in case they missed the other episode, and we'll link to that one in the show notes, but who you are, what you're doing these days, and yeah. 

00:02:18 Shelby: Sure. Hi everyone. My name is Shelby Davis, and I'm a full-time speech-language pathologist at the Community High School, located in Teaneck, New Jersey, which is a private high school that supports students with special needs. I'm also an adjunct professor at Monmouth University, where I have the privilege of teaching and mentoring future SLPs. And in addition, I'm currently a doctoral candidate at Monmouth University, where my research and experiences continue to strengthen my passion for supporting students with families within the school setting.

00:02:43 Hallie: I love that. I love it that, like, you just are doing it all. And I love when I got to see you person in the spring at your event at the community school, I really got to see what it was all about. So, tell people listening maybe a little bit more about the school that you work in, because that really does shape a lot of the background.

00:03:01 Shelby: Absolutely. Well, thank you for coming as an attendee and a vendor. We loved having you. And yes, I actually, like, I feel like Community High School is like my second home. Everyone is just so nice and welcoming, and I'm sure you felt that same vibe. It is a specialized school, and we have students with all different types of diagnosis, from autism to dyslexia, ADHD, anything that you'd be considered as a neurodivergent individual, we accept you, and everyone feels like at home when they're there. No one feels like they're different. And we accept all learning styles as we are equipped to teach any student and how they learn. 

00:03:38 Hallie: And are these… did you know you wanted to work in a high school when you came out of graduate school? 

00:03:43 Shelby: I really thought I was going to work with the younger ones, and I'm kind of happy that I pushed myself to go on this interview, because I really went out of my comfort zone, and I have to say it was the best decision I've ever made. So yes, I'm forever grateful.

00:03:57 Hallie: Love that, love that. And today we're going to be talking a lot about fifth-year transition programs. What is that, and what has brought your attention to all this?

00:04:08 Shelby: So as I mentioned before, I am a doctoral student at Monmouth University, so I kind of had to think about what am I passionate about? What do I want to make a difference at my workplace? Well, I feel like a lot of times, seniors at our school, that are on the spectrum or have some sort of learning, need don't know what they want to do when they graduate, and that's a common question that we receive from them as well as their families. And I want to make sure that they feel comfortable when they leave here and really have those foundational functional communication skills, life skills. And a lot of times they rush off to either college or trade school or just take a gap year, and honestly, they're not ready yet. And that's okay, because I feel like in this world we're so used to, you know, going by this structure of time. And it's okay to take a moment, take a year to really develop those skills so they feel ready to generalize them into the community.

00:05:03 Hallie: Okay, so this fifth year, what would it contain? Is it just like a continuation? Is it different than the other four years? What makes this fifth year different?

00:05:13 Shelby: How we're going to structure a community high school is that we're going to be doing kind of a unique schedule for every student and their needs. So if a student didn't get to take a certain elective that they wanted to and feel like their future kind of and their interests align with that future, they could definitely take that elective. But we're really honing in on making some of our related service providers, like our SLPs, our OTs, as being the instructor of these classes and kind of bringing them into the real world, having them, you know, take part in shadowing maybe a coffee shop across the street and being exposed to skills they wouldn't necessarily be able to in those four years.

00:05:51 Hallie: That's amazing. So you're actually helping shape this program itself. Did you see other programs or research other programs to get an idea of what it should entail or look like and contain?

00:06:02 Shelby: Honestly, I haven't and the reason being is because there's not much out there for what our specific kind of scope is. And being a researcher now, I kind of see that the research is limited and this is why there's a need for fifth year programs to schools that are even our general ed schools and have those special ed classes. Maybe they can adapt our model and kind of learn from us that your student doesn't need to graduate in four years. It's okay to take that extra year to gain those skills and then to be successful because we want our students to be successful when they graduate and know where they've gone.

00:06:37 Hallie: I love that. And what skills have you felt that your students could have benefited from more? Because I know in high school people are like they don't need speech anymore. We're done. They've plateaued. But you're saying even a fifth year. So what kind of skills do you see foresee the speech program being able to work on?

00:06:56 Shelby: Well, a lot of it is coming from the Speech Time Fund materials. I love your section on older students because I feel like, you know, they're really not have achieved those skills of learning perspective taking and workplace vocabulary and inferencing and those are higher level, you know, skills. And sometimes it takes time to learn those skills and maybe they can't in a traditional nine month or ten month school year. So if we kind of delve into each of those categories and use your amazing materials throughout the year. And while we're kind of having them go into the workplace and understanding really how to use workplace vocabulary and inferencing, maybe those concepts will finally click to our students. 

00:07:41 Hallie: I love that. And how did you get like your administration and everything on board? Like how… like, I could see like so many… there's so many questions people like, oh my God. I  would love this but you know, there's no budget. There's no funding. But how did you get, you know, how did this come about?

00:07:58 Shelby: Well, I have to say I really love that our school is so tight-knit and I just feel like I can go to each of them really whenever about anything and I always come in with my new ideas. And honestly, I kind of you know, we kind of did like an experiment of having a couple kids stay for another year but this is really in September going to be kind of the program that we design, the administration team as well as myself, and how do we meet each individual student's needs. And I kind of went over with them like a mock curriculum, funding we would need, any sort of certifications if we sent, you know, our staff out or parent consent. 

00:08:32 Shelby: And so far they have been amazing and that's why I kind of wanted to just give them a shout out because you know, I speak to a lot of friends that work in school districts and they were like, I don't know if my school would do that. So a specific thank you to Sara Shortway, Scott Parisi, Charlotte Petway, Dan Silvestro and Evan Toth. Seriously, thank you for always saying yes to me and making… helping me shape the fifth year transition program this coming fall because I know it will be amazing and I'm so happy to have all of you on my team.

00:09:00 Hallie: That's amazing. And I cannot wait to hear after the year of what wins and success stories and what data you were able to collect. What are some things you're looking for in terms of the research part of it?

00:09:15 Shelby: So it's so fun. I never thought I'd be a researcher, but I'm so lucky to have Dr. Raj as my committee chair. I mean I got very lucky on that one. And Dr. George, he is the director of our program at Monmouth University. So I guess the things that I didn't even know like you have to look into what kind of methodology you would choose and for my particular, I guess, passion and seeing the kids like experiences and feelings that would be more of a qualitative approach. So we're going to be using phenomenology as our main methodology and I'm going to be interviewing the students kind of before they start the program and then at the end and kind of seeing like their emotions and how they felt and what they've gained from it. And honestly I wish like this, you know research could be a few years where I kind of see where they go down the road. But, unfortunately, I do have to graduate at some point, but no, but it's been a great experience.

00:10:06 Hallie: That's so amazing. And I'm just curious what inspired you to go for your doctorate?

00:10:12 Shelby: Honestly, I've always wanted to just continue learning and I feel like as SLPs, there's so much to know. And to be a really good SLP and kind of understand the why, that's kind of what an EDD is all about and that's kind of what I've gotten and that's a practical approach. And I'm really interested by the writing behind it and that I could be published and that this could take me places. But seriously my real reason of what I got back from this is that I'm actually making a difference at community high school and hopefully other schools around the world can adapt it too.

00:10:47 Hallie: That's so so cool. What were some of the funding things that you needed? Just out of curiosity in case anyone is thinking about, you know, looking into this.

00:10:55 Shelby: Sure. So we haven't really gone into paying stuff yet because I'm kind of have like a whole spreadsheet of how everything will cost but it's going to be, you know, depending on the field trips that were, you know, we already have like a small bus so we have that transportation component. So depending on if the school has a bus they can use to and from destinations that would be a cost as well as the materials.

00:11:17 Shelby: Honestly, we're going to be using a bunch of your materials and I kind of have that already purchased so that kind of solves the problem and then the students are going to be taking their elective classes. But I guess, you know, if someone wasn't using your materials kind of going out into maybe… like you said a school that already did it and kind of using that as a model, but I got Speech Time Fun. I don't really need much else.

00:11:38 Hallie: I love it. And how I would love to just hear like in general when you're working with these students in the high school level when it comes to like self-advocacy skills and life skills? What are some of the things you're working on with them? You know, yes, you're going to continue with it next year but I'm curious and everyone listening is probably just wanting to learn more about just some of the things you're doing with these students in general in the high school level.

00:11:59 Shelby: Sure. I think as basic as I need help was a challenge for a lot of our students. A lot of them get embarrassed to even ask for help because they want to seem cool in front of their friends. So a lot of what we do is we kind of give them like affirmation statements and have them like paste it onto the board and we kind of, you know, have them kind of go out into the workplace. Like that's my plan for the fifth year and how they can ask for help, you know, if they were checking out at a register and they needed help checking out or they needed help with an order at a cafe across the street. Those little statements they could bring them on little flashcards if they forget because we love visuals as SLPs as reminders to our students. So that's kind of an example.

00:12:41 Hallie: Love that. And what are some like some key skill areas that SLPs can target in natural environments other than like self-advocacy and like just like we need vocabulary. What are some other things?

00:12:51 Shelby: Executive functioning. That's a real big skill as we know like the planning aspects, the organization, the task completion. My favorite is vocational communication. So interviewing, teamwork, workplace, language. If you're teaching other classes like problem solving and flexible thinking, kind of giving them all real world scenarios and then having them apply it in that situation.

00:13:16 Hallie: And what are some functional activities that tie to like real world tasks, independent living skills, things like that? What are some things that you know SLPs can work on more?

00:13:29 Shelby: So for my program for next year I kind of made each month a different topic to kind of work on. And for, I guess, for budgeting month we can go to a coffee shop or a restaurant and kind of work on a couple things so you can work on the money aspects of budgeting. You can work on ordering skills. You can work on etiquette of how to be at a table and speak appropriately to your friends or family. There's so many things that you can do in one place. I have a post office. How, you know, a life skill of how to write out a check or do these basic things that we think our students can do but they really can't because who writes letters anymore?

00:14:05 Hallie: Every student can benefit from this. Let's be real here. I love that.

00:14:13 Shelby: Honestly, my goal of it is just to bring them outside the classroom as much as possible. I'm also a huge fan of the New York Times, specifically the Learning Network, because we need to have our students exploring what's going on in the world and current events is so important. And when my students are like, wait, I didn't know that. They're not being exposed to the times and kind of bringing that into, you know, discussion questions and your Venn diagrams of compare and contrast. Like you could have a month lesson on just one article.

00:14:40 Hallie: I love that. Yes, I'm such an advocate for use one thing and drag it out as many sessions as possible. Like why not? And just, you know, inside of SLP Elevate, we have a money theme and a coffee shop theme in there as well. So you can use those themed materials with those themes and stuff like that. Why would students with autism and those with diverse learning benefit from like the repetition and that extra year of support?

00:15:09 Shelby: Because a lot of the students that we have that are on the spectrum, they need reinforcement and repetition a lot. And for them to need repetition, the classroom is one thing. And then we, you know, kind of send them off into the real world. They're like, oh my God. I'm freaking out to go across the street. Well, we need to kind of get them to that point and give them examples and kind of get them away from, I guess, helping them so much. But I don't know how to explain it. Like we're just trying to have them… like, those that are having difficulty with generalizing skills from the classroom into the community, if that makes sense.

00:15:45 Hallie: No, totally. And also, you know, just for everyone listening, like students have their IEPs till 21. So they have the rights to more services. It's a matter of where they are getting from. So if they're able to get in the school they're already in.

00:16:04 Shelby: Yes, I agree. And I'm very biased and I want everyone to stay for the fifth year. But I have those students that I know that really truly would benefit and they would get so much out of it. And they would get so much out of it. And then like we're going to do really small classroom settings. So that way it really is highly individualized.

00:16:22 Hallie: How do you decide?

00:16:23 Shelby: We could just see those ones that just wouldn't make it past graduation and need that little extra support. And maybe they just don't know what they want to do and that's okay. Because again, social media and society has told us after four years, you got to move on. Well, really we need to stop that.

00:16:41 Hallie: How do the parents feel about this?

00:16:43 Shelby: Honestly, they're for it. And I thought that would be kind of a problem, you know, trying to tell a parent like, oh, your child needs to stay another year. And honestly, they are so for it. They love it because they also want their child to succeed. So we are a team and we want to also kind of include them in this process. Because I'm all about that too, you know, also as part of the child and we want them to succeed.

00:17:09 Hallie: Were you a part of the process in getting the community support and like getting like some jobs, like locations and things like that? Like how did you help with that aspect?

00:17:20 Shelby: So I'm in the process of calling like local businesses and just seeing if, you know, our students can at least just kind of shadow for a day. If not, let me be like, I don't know if we're going to be able to get them for a week or two. But as long as there's a staff member there, we're kind of organizing that right now. But thankfully, I do have a lot of ties in the community. So that's kind of been okay and easy. Everyone in the community is so helpful and they want to kind of show us who they are as well because that's just the town we're kind of in.

00:17:46 Hallie: Amazing. Have you had any challenges that you were surprised to be faced in this whole process of setting this up?

00:17:54 Shelby: Not yet, but I will see in September.

00:17:57 Hallie: And you're like, I don't want to be here anymore.

00:18:03 Shelby: No, seriously, honestly, like the couple of students that we have also coming in the fall, like I feel like they are also excited because they know it's like new and they're special and it's going to be a good thing.

00:18:14 Hallie: That's awesome. Were any staff members like resistant or hesitant or had any concerns about the program?

00:18:22 Shelby: Not that I've heard of yet, but my plan is that those who are teaching the classes, I will be giving a professional development day like a few hours so they know how to kind of teach to the mock curriculum we're making and making sure that they're also comfortable teaching them.

00:18:38 Hallie: That's amazing. That sounds like it's just really super organized. And I mean, from staffing and you have a professional development, you have curriculum, you have a plan in place, like you're getting the community on board and even like having different months targets and things like that, like that'll make it super helpful to you when the year is up and running and it's not your only caseload. You have the other students in the school to worry about.

00:19:04 Shelby: No, it honestly just worked out that I'm a student right now, you know at Monmouth and community high school has been just so cooperative in saying yes to me and anything I've asked for. So really thank both of them for just kind of working together and making it a true success for me as an SLP and then also for our students because that's really who's going to benefit from this.

00:19:26 Hallie: Totally. I really do love it. How do you plan on working collaboratively with the OTs, counselors, families, teachers next year like ongoing? I know you mentioned giving them professional development in the beginning but what about the ongoing support and collaboration?

00:19:40 Shelby: As part of my dissertation is check-ins. So I'm going to kind of do like a once a month check-in to make sure that they are doing good, if they need anything from me, if they feel like they're struggling. I will continue to give them resources to use because maybe an English teacher doesn't feel comfortable with teaching functional life skills and that's okay. I will continue to give them as many resources as possible to make them feel confident and I can meet with them on one-on-one. I can meet with them in groups. I will be as open as possible. So I think we'll be okay.

00:20:10 Hallie: So amazing and anyone like, you know, there's just so many… whether or not you have a fifth year transition program or thinking about it, just the different things that Shelby has shared here, just ways to incorporate these things into your practice to the ninth through twelfth graders. Just the vocational training, just the self-advocacy skills, the different themes of money and budgeting and writing letters. Like these are… the number one question I get asked probably every day is what to do with my life skill [inaudible]. And here's just so many different ideas that you can use that will benefit them whether you're able to go out into the community, whether you're able to have a fifth year. What would you say to someone who was considering wanting to bring this up to their admin and are hesitant and scared? What would you say to them?

00:20:55 Shelby: I think I would say to them that they need to come up with a good proposal and how this would benefit their particular group of students because every school is different and the type of students that we keep seeing are definitely… I would say, need more support as the years are coming on. So it kind of depends on their diagnosis. But if they feel like their students are graduating and we're hearing that they're not able to really do anything and go through four years and they're struggling with basic functional communication skills, maybe sitting down with an administrator and just saying hey, don't we want to see these kids, you know, really grow up and feel confident? Because that's what it's all about is our students feeling ready to succeed in the real world.

00:21:38 Hallie: I love it. And even just being able to go out into the community and bringing the community into the classroom more, it's going to help with carryover, help with… we're always wanting to make our lessons relevant and, you know, to their world… like, this is their world. So why not bring the world to them?

00:21:56 Shelby: Yes. And I would say incorporate as many field trips as possible and really incorporate your materials because your materials are such a baseline for my program. And honestly, like you always say like, you don't need to spend hours creating materials when they're already made. And thanks to you they are. And from that, like some of your slides and worksheets, I can make, like you said, into a month or two lesson of my own stuff too but kind of using that as a base for me. It's just amazing.

00:22:22 Hallie: I love that. Any other tips advice for just those SLPs working with this population that may not feel that they're making that big of an impact that they would like? Any word of advice?

00:22:36 Shelby: Sure. I feel like working with high school students is definitely tougher because you can't just give them stickers and be like oh my god, you're so cute. So kind of really getting to their level and seeing them as a person and connecting to their interests. And then from there, if a student really likes basketball, maybe… I don't know, put on the NBA game and do a current events article on it and then get some receptive and expressive language. You have to tie their interests because I always say it. They're not, you know, they're not experiments. They're actual human beings and this is not, you know, we're not in science class. So treat them as a human. They are a person. They have feelings. They have emotions and they also really want to learn too and they want to grow. So as long as you kind of get on to their level, you'll be great.

00:23:19 Hallie: The students that you teach at the university, if one of them came to you and said I'm scared to work in a high school. What would you say to them?

00:23:28 Shelby: I would tell them the same thing because I said I was scared. I said honestly, just put on a little high heels and act cool and you'll be fine because I'm five… I think I'm five one. Yeah, I'm pretty short in there and I blend in right with the kids because the teachers think I'm one of them. No, I would seriously say…

00:23:43 Hallie: I was in my 20s when I worked in a high school and I'm five foot even. And that was like the only year that I wore heels and like professional pants and I still got asked for a hall pass. I was like, [inaudible]. I work here.

00:23:59 Shelby: No, I would seriously say that as long as you kind of utilize resources that you make and others make for this age population, you'll be okay and just act like yourself. They just want to get to know you. They want to ask a hundred questions.

00:24:13 Hallie: Just be kids.

00:24:15 Shelby: Yeah, just be a kid. Just be a kid. You'll be great.

00:24:19 Hallie: So true. Where can everyone follow up on what you're doing? Ask questions. Reach out. Where can everyone find you?

00:24:26 Shelby: Sure. Everyone can find me on my personal Instagram, @shelbyadavis. And then we also have the community high school Instagram if, you know, when we're posting stuff next year for, you know, really implementing and starting this program. So definitely check back.

00:24:39 Hallie: I love it. I always end my episodes with a joke. So why did the student bring glue to class?

00:24:48 Shelby: I have no idea.

00:24:50 Hallie: Because they wanted to stick to their studies.

00:24:53 Shelby: I love it. So funny.

00:24:56 Hallie: My corny dad jokes here guys. Every week, every Monday, I have not missed the joke. I might have missed the joke or two. But still I'm here every week. You can steal my joke. Take credit for it. I don't mind. Shelby, thank you so much for sharing the fifth year transition program and what you are doing with your students. And like guys, I'm not just like… I was there in the building. Like, I got to see Shelby present to the community and it really is like a community. And it was really so nice to see just what is possible out there when people like to work together and have the student's best interests at heart. So I love it.

00:25:35 Shelby: Thank you so much for always supporting me and being one of my biggest fans too as I am yours. Thank you.

00:25:41 Hallie: All right, guys, until next week. Stay out of trouble.

00:25:50 Hallie: Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. It means the world to me that you're tuning in each and every week and getting the jolt of inspiration you need. You can find all of the links and information mentioned in this episode at my website, speechtimefun.com. Don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss any future episodes. And while you're there, it would mean the world to me if you would take a few seconds and leave me an honest review. See you next week with another episode full of fun and inspiration from one SLP to another. Have fun, guys.

00:26:31 Hallie: Hey there, SLP friends. It is Hallie here popping in with the best news ever. My new book Secondary SLP Roadmap is officially available. If you've ever wished for a clear practical guide for working with middle and high school students, this is it. It is packed with real stories ready to use strategies and tools you can use right away. Grab your copy now check the link in the show notes or search Secondary SLP Roadmap on Amazon. And then of course, please do me a favor when you are reading it. Snap a picture and tag me on Instagram @speechtimefun. I love seeing where you're diving, in the speech room, the couch, waiting in a doctor's waiting room, all the places. All right, ready? Go grab your copy and let's make secondary speech feel doable and fun.

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