344: Do Not Fear The Vocalic R

Show Notes:

Feeling stuck when it comes to that pesky vocalic R? In this episode, Hallie sits down with Karen Krogg of The Pedi Speechie, a school-based SLP with a serious R obsession, to talk through everything from tongue shape to carryover. Karen breaks down her hand gesture analogies, favorite tools, and how she keeps kids motivated through the long haul of R therapy.

Here's what we learned:

  • Progress often comes down to problem-solving, not repetition — no single method works for every student
  • The quicker a student masters R in isolation, the more predictable the rest of therapy tends to go
  • A baseline screener at the start of the year makes progress easier to track
  • Patience is part of the clinical skill set — R therapy can take well over a year
  • New SLPs don’t need to have it all figured out — CEU courses and online resources help fill the gaps

RESOURCES

📘✨ Grab your copy of The Secondary SLP Roadmap here! https://www.speechtimefunpd.com/stf-book 

Learn more about Hallie Sherman  and SLP Elevate: 

Learn more about Karen Krogg:

JOKE OF THE WEEK:

Q: What did the traffic light say to the car?

A: Don't look now I'm changing.

Where We Can Connect: 

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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00 Hallie:  Hey there, SLP working with grades 4 through 12. New school year, new you. Let's not go into this school year feeling overwhelmed and behind on paperwork. Let's not worry about students asking why they are coming to speech. Let's not have students shrugging their shoulders and looking at you saying, why am I here? I don't want to be here. Let's instead have your students excited to come to speech, ready to take on the challenges you provide and make massive progress towards our goals. 

00:00:31 Hallie: If you are ready to make this school year, the year that you leave work promptly at the end of the day, plan in an hour or less a week and go into every session confident that your students will grasp the session objectives, then SLP Elevate is just what you need to make this school year a successful one. Either go to slpelevate.com or send me a DM on Instagram with the word club, C-U-L-B, and we can discuss if SLP Elevate is right for you and your students. Now is the time to get your time back. And now is the time to get your students excited to come to speech. SLP Elevate is perfect for you.

00:01:15 Hallie: Welcome to SLP Coffee Talk, the podcast designed exclusively for speech language pathologists who work with older students, grades 4 through 12. I am your host, Hallie Sherman, your SLP behind Speech Time Fun, the Speech Retreat Conference, and the SLP Elevate Membership. And I'm thrilled to bring you conversations, strategies, and insights that will give you the jolt of inspiration that you need. Whether you're tuning in during your morning commute, on a break in between sessions, or even during a well-deserved relaxation time, I am here for you each and every week. Let's do this, SLPs. 

00:01:54 Hallie: Hey, hey, and welcome to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. Do you have students working on that pesky vocalic R? If so, you're going to love the conversation we're going to be having here today because I have the one and only Karen Krogg from the Pedi Speechy. Welcome to the show.

00:02:11 Karen: Hello. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

00:02:14 Hallie: Tell everyone listening a little bit about yourself and your journey to what you are doing these days.

00:02:21 Karen: Okay. Yeah. So I am a school SLP. I primarily work with elementary age. And in that journey, I've also done some oral facial myology coursework. I've done a little bit of pediatric outpatient as well. And I've just had this obsession with vocalic R. So it's just led me to taking a lot of extra CEU courses in that area and reading up on it as much as I can. So yeah. But also, yeah, I live in Ohio and I've got two kids. And yeah, that's about it.

00:02:53 Hallie: You said you mentioned you took some like CEU courses and stuff. Did you feel like before that you weren't as confident in it? How did you feel up until that point when you started to dive more into the vocalic R?

00:03:06 Karen: Oh, yeah. I feel like the single best course I took was Sandra Holtzman has this Seven Steps to Correcting R. I can't remember the exact title. It has seven steps in it. It's a long title, but that course was really excellent. I've also taken some Pam Marshalla coursework. And then, like I said, I took the oral facial myology coursework, which I think gave me just a little bit… different understanding for treating the R sound. But yeah, the CEU courses were really helpful.

00:03:38 Hallie: Now, I'm going to ask this question because I'm sure a lot of school SLPs struggle with this one. When it comes to that vocalic R and working on the R sound in general in the school setting, how do you determine whether or not, you know, it's warranted in schools, whether it's not, whether it's severe or not, whether it's academically impacting? I know that's something that often came up a lot for me in the schools, especially working with older students that have been working on this pesky R for so long. And it's like, is this [crosstalk] SLP role or not? So I'm curious your thoughts on this one.

00:04:11 Karen: Yeah, no, absolutely. So I feel like especially if it's something that is bothering the student, impacting them, you know, are they able to answer questions out loud in the classroom and communicate effectively with their peers? I mean, I feel that right there to me is… that's important. That's something I should be treating. I don't know about you, but I also feel like a lot of my students with vocalic R errors have vocalic R in their name. I don't know. 

00:04:39 Hallie: [inaudible] Or a sibling or like a pet or something.

00:04:43 Karen: Yeah. Yeah. And then a lot of times too, like I'll have these students and they'll kind of start in for other things. You know what I mean? And then kind of like vocalic R ends up being that final thing. So, yeah, I mean, just kind of is it impacting them academically and taking a look and also consulting with their teachers and with their parents and whatnot. So kind of looking at it from all angles, talking to the team, but also talking to the students, especially, you know, some of our older students, they can let us know how motivated they are to work on that.

00:05:20 Hallie: Do you have a favorite like screening tool and different tools that you like to use when assessing and determining progress? 

00:05:28 Karen: Yeah. So my favorite tool for just progress monitoring and seeing where they're at initially, and then I recheck throughout the year is the entire world of R Screener. I bought that when I first started my career. I don't even know. I don't know what it costs now. I mean, I think that… not to show my age, but like when I bought it, it was like ten dollars. It's probably not that now because, you know, but I really do like their screener. I don't use like the total, like the huge in-depth one. I just like that one single page. It's just real quick and it just gives me a percentage to work on.

00:06:05 Karen:: And it's really cool to see, like when I have R students, like it's the start of the school year pretty soon. All of my R students, I'm going to get a baseline measure for where they're at before we even start therapy. And then I usually like to check again, of course, before their IEP is due and just kind of see, you know, where they're measuring and whatnot. But it's really a nice tool to see progress. So.

00:06:26 Hallie: And so where do you begin with working with these students?

00:06:31 Karen: Okay. So I like to start with the er sound in isolation, and that's coming from that one course that I was talking about, Sandra Holtzman's course. And I found there's most of the students I've worked with, that's been a really great starting point. I can't say every student that's been the perfect starting point, but most of the time, that's where I like to start. And then I kind of like to analyze… well, I use that screener and I find out, like, usually they can say R in some contexts, right? 

00:07:00 Karen: So the first thing I like to do is find out what tongue shape triplets are and bunch are. So I like to figure out how they're making their R, but it really determines how I'm going to cue them, what visuals I'm going to provide for them. So I like to determine that first. Yeah. So for retroflex R, I have different analogies using some like hand gestures and stuff that I use for each one. So I can go through that.

00:07:26 Hallie: Yeah, let's hear it. And in case anyone's not familiar with the two terms of like the R's, which is which first? 

00:07:31 Karen: Yeah, sure. Okay. I should probably go over that first. Yeah. Yeah. So for the retroflex R, you are seeing the underside of the tongue. So the tongue tip is kind of just like tilting and lifting back just slightly towards the back of the mouth versus the bunched R, which is where the tongue is literally lifting up and back towards the upper back teeth. So the sides of the tongue are touching those upper back teeth. And so that's the difference. So if it's a retroflex R, you probably will be seeing the underside of the tongue. Does that make sense?

00:08:03 Hallie: Yeah, totally. Totally. Okay. All right. So now we have what the two R's are. Now, what do we do with them?

00:08:09 Karen: Yes. Okay. So let's start with the retroflex R. I do have an analogy for both and I pair it with a hand gesture.

00:08:15 Hallie: I love it.

00:08:16 Karen: I know that no one can see the hand gesture but you, but so I will do my best to explain it. So the first one for a retroflex R, I like to tell my students that it's a pirate hook. I use the pirate hook analogy. And so I will have my hand like laying like with my palm up, like facing the ceiling. And then we just kind of slightly curl the grouped fingers back so that it looks like a pirate hook. Does that make sense?

00:08:39 Hallie: Think Captain Hook, guys. Captain Hook like laying flat. 

00:08:44 Karen: Yeah, like laying flat.

00:08:46 Hallie: Captain Hook's on the table. 

00:08:48 Karen: Yes. Yes. Like, yeah. So like the palm of your hand would be up towards the ceiling. I hope that makes sense. But yeah, like the pirate hook. So that's a really great – Now, a lot of these things you probably need to do all of them like in combo. It's not like just one thing will work. I've found that I have to, you know, try lots of things. But I found that that pirate hook analogy is really helpful for my students. 

00:09:09 Karen: I like to use a typodont. I always have a typodont on hand. I pair it with either highlighter tape or Play-Doh or you can just point and show them. But when you have a typodont, you can easily show like shaping from L or like that slide or tap back method. So if you have a typodont, I'll kind of show tap on the top and show where we're making the L sound. And then I'll kind of tap back or slide back with my finger.

00:09:36 Karen: And of course, with the retroflex art, it's not that the tongue tip is touching. It's not really touching the top of it, but it just kind of gives them… it's a little harder for them, like when you have that empty space, you know what I mean? So it just gives them a visual kind of tilting that tongue tip backwards a little bit. So shaping from L or that slide or tap back method. And I'm pretty sure, don't quote me, I'm pretty sure that's described by Pam Marshalla. So I did not make that up.

00:10:00 Karen: Another thing that's really important is to watch for chin movement. So I always like to have a mirror. This is for whether you're working with retroflex R or bunched R, but it's really important that they're able to keep their chin still and not shift it side to side. We want to kind of just really focus on where the tongue is and moving the tongue and, you know, being able to put that in the right position, but without involving the chin. So try having like a mirror, like just on the desk. And then I like to have them put their hands on their cheeks so they can feel for that movement. So that's also helpful as well. 

00;10:36 Karen: All right. So the next up is the bunched R and the sides of the tongue are touching those upper back teeth. So it's kind of like, okay, so you kind of want to group your fingers and you're kind of crawling them back into a question mark shape. Your hand is like lifted, like up towards your shoulder. So does that make sense?

00:10:57 Hallie: Okay. It's like the Captain Hook guys, but instead of it's laying down, it's like a backwards question mark.

00:11:03 Karen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That made more sense. Yes. I do like to use that analogy as well. I also like to use the typodont for this because you can show lingual palatal contact with the typodont. I got a really cheap one on Amazon for like eight bucks. So it doesn't have to be like, that doesn't have to be a major purchase, but I did want to also point out if you don't have a typodont, there's a website called Sketchfab. And if you type in 3D teeth model, you can like – it's really cool. You can go on this website and you can kind of zoom in on these models and, and like show them like, and it'll… you can make it real big. It's pretty cool. It's worth checking out. So yeah, that's Sketchfab. 

00:11:42 Hallie: Okay. I mean, guys, SLPs, this is going to be like the newest, you know, fad here, guys.

00:11:49 Karen: Yeah. Well, it's also free, which is cool. And I would just also say, just search teeth model, because if you search like mouth model or teeth and tongue, those can be a little creepy. So I would say, I just, you know, just show that lingual palatal contact search 3D teeth model. And the… one website is Sketchfab. I'm sure there's more, but yeah. So that's one other thing. For the bunched R tongue positioning, one of my go-to methods throughout the years has been to use a tongue depressor. And of course my students like prefer the flavored ones, you know, I think SuperDuper…

00:12:25 Hallie: Oh, SuperDuper has those.

00:12:26 Karen: Yeah. But so what I do is I show it on myself and I just give them a tongue depressor. And I just point out like, this is like a really gentle thing. And I kind of show with my hand.

00:12:36 Hallie: You're not poking and jabbing yourself.

00:12:38 Karen: You're not trying to like, yeah. So what I do is I show, I'll have one hand modeling as my… as the tongue, and then I'll have one hand modeling as the tongue depressor. And I'll kind of show them how they're just kind of using that tongue depressor to gently push that tongue up and back. And then another trick is to use your arms. You can clasp them in front of you. I'm trying to show you this. I have to back away from my computer just a little, as you can see, but if you have… if you like clasp your hands, yeah, in front of you.

00:13:06 Hallie: It looks like you guys are stretching your fingers, like to crack them, but like not… the opposite way. Okay. 

00:13:11 Karen: Yeah. Yeah. And so you're like, you know how sometimes there'll be like, it's just not quite there. And it's more of like, uh, than an er. I like to use that because if you get the uh sound, you can kind of like show how they've like, not like done enough muscle tension and they've kind of dropped the tongue a little bit and you can use your elbows just to kind of demonstrate like going down. And that has made sense for some of my students too, that the sides of their tongue aren't up and strong and lifted and making that tension that it needs to make. 

00:13:36 Hallie: Using your arms, guys. It's like, you're hugging someone in front of you. The hands are clasped and then you're just like tensing your elbows, like this a little bit to show the tension. Okay.

00:13:47 Karen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then if they say that, uh, then you kind of like show how your elbows, you have them like literally drop to show that their tongue's not holding their attention. I want to go back to the tongue depressor cause I feel like I kind of didn't complete that. So when you're using that tongue depressor, I can take a little bit of time. This isn't like usually a first try thing. So what I will have them do is kind of smile with their teeth slightly apart. Yeah. And then have them put that tongue depressor under and then show them with your hands. Okay. We're going to lift the tongue up and back and then make sure, you know, kind of walk them through. The side of your tongue needs to be touching those upper back teeth. That's again, where you can like use something like Sketchfab or type it out in conjunction with it. 

00:14:25 Karen: But as they're smiling and the tongue is lifting up and back, tell them to hold real still and try that er sound. Yeah. So all these pieces kind of can work together because sometimes, op! And then, you know? So if they're not getting a good er, I'll usually take my hand, I'll kind of have this hand gesture showing like the up and back and then I'll kind of show, Oh, you dropped, you know, you dropped your tongue. So I'm trying to – like that how… 

00:14:50 Hallie: Using your hands to show the movement of the tongue. I've also done like the touching, like my hand to like my shoulders removed – like showing the tongue going back. Like er.

00:14:58 Karen: Oh, I like that.

00:14:59 Hallie: It's just showing the, like the movement backwards. Like… 

00:15:03 Karen: I love it. Yeah.

00:15:04 Hallie: That's what I've tried. So there's no wrong answer, guys. There's no wrong. It's a matter of pairing it with something that resonates with the child. So… 

00:15:12 Karen: Yeah. SLPs are so creative at like showing different movement [inaudible] articulatory placements, but anyways, those are some things that have worked for me. And then, like I said, I like to start with that vocalic er in isolation. And then, you know, I kind of run through. So again, a lot of this is going back to that Sandra course, but she kind of runs first through like nonsense word productions or all of the different sounds and blends. So that way they're not doing some learned motor plan. It's kind of like… it's like you'd start… like you might be starting with like your bilabial sounds and they might be saying nonsense words like, er, ber, er, her, er, mer. And you're kind of like going through all of the different sounds and blends before you try that in real words. So then, I go back. And then after we've gone through all the sound class families, then I'll practice words like paper, November, and kind of going through and practicing it. It's like kind of like a cycle. It's pretty cool.

00:16:10 Hallie: I love that. And I also heard somewhere like you should not be calling it like we're going to be doing the er sound because they already have the er sound, but it's the wrong er sound. So like almost like teaching them, like, this is a new sound almost like, you know, have you heard something like that?

00:16:26 Karen: Like I have heard something like that. And I know that there's a fancy term for it. Like where you're there's a term for it. [crosstalk] Yes. Yeah. Cause definitely they're kind of… they already think they have a certain like motor plan and whatever. And it's, you know, incorrect. They just automatically go to that. So teaching a new sound hypothetically can definitely work. So whatever you want to call it.

00:16:51 Hallie: That's awesome. What are some ways you make this practice a little bit more fun? So it isn't just like sitting there and like just drilling and staring at each other.

00:17:00 Karen: Right. I know that's the thing. Honestly, not to be like, I just use games. I'm kind of like a big… we use Jenga. We use whatever, pop-up minion. My students love Uno. That one's a little… let's say you're past the stage of that or in isolation, I like to color code. So, I have these sheets I use and it's like color coded. So for each color or type of card they draw, like they draw a wild or whatever. I'll have written maybe the sound combination that they're practicing and anytime they have to go, kind of makes them stop and work. So, I don't think I'm super creative with that. I just kind of, we just usually pick a game and take some turns with it. 

00:17:49 Karen: Younger students, I do like to use some movement just because getting them out of the table. I mean, because I do work on this R sound with… I've had success with some first graders and definitely second graders. Sometimes I'll set up a little 00 my room is small, but I sometimes set up a little obstacle course. I bought this for my kids and they never used it. So I just took it to work, you know what I mean? I don't know. They're little balance beams, but they're individual pieces and it's all connected by a rope. And so I put that all across the room and we make it all zigzaggy and jagged. 

00:18:29 Karen: And I have students, I've had like fourth and fifth grade boys who just love doing that. They'll go from start to the end of it, and then they'll love practicing their words. I went to Five Below and I got a little basketball hoop and basketball to put in my room. Yeah. So we do stuff like that. You know what I mean? I just try it and they just, yeah, Five Below is…

00:18:52 Hallie: So it's like you pick your poison, guys. Pick the game. I don't care what you pick. Just let's practice the sounds.

00:18:59 Karen: Exactly. And I even got little scooters for my room and I… because the gym teacher gave the OT all these extra scooters. And she's like, do you want any of these? And I was like, yes. 

00:19:10 Hallie: The answer is always yes. 

00:19:12 Karen: I mean, I only took two. My room's small, so it's like a real small obstacle course, but it still counts. 

00:19:19 Hallie: It counts. And what about carryover? What have you found to be the best way once they finally demonstrated it with you, getting them to do it on their own.

00:19:30 Karen: Okay. So we have this one, it's called ParentSquare. We have an app where I can easily reach out to the parents. And once I feel like they're at a point where they can say it in isolation or whatnot, and then we're practicing, maybe there's sound combinations or words. If I need to give some extra details, I'll message the parents on that. And I found a lot of the parents are like, oh great. You know what I mean? They’ll like get into it. But my students could, they like when I just write the words on sticky notes, I'm not really sure why that's so motivating, but I just send them home with sticky notes usually because it's quick and it's easy. And I mean, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but yeah. 


00:20:11 Hallie: And that's awesome. And have you found certain kids can get this remediated in a year? Like, what have you found to be like, everyone's like, how long is this going to take? And what have you found to be like some signs or ways?

00:20:25 Karen: I do feel like that can vary from kid to kid. I mean, I have some kids where I – I really feel like most of my vocabulary kids, it can take a year and a half to get everything, but some are longer. You know, some, it just takes longer. But then I've also had a student like last year. I mean, it was like less than a year. Like he got it really quickly. I really think the best indicator is how quickly they get that er sound in isolation.

00:20:53 Karen: If it's really, really effortful for them and just challenging and difficult and it takes them a long time, which is okay. But the quicker they get, the easier that is for them. Usually, like I've found the progress is quicker. With that said, I do want to like, just say that like that vocalic er in isolation, I have spent up to two months just on that sound with my students, sometimes more, sometimes less. So I just, it is, I feel like patience is just such an important thing when you're treating vocalic R.

00:21:22 Hallie: Let's say patience and also like that problem solving, like what are they doing and what trick, what method will work best for them? And not every vocalic R case is the same.

00:21:33 Karen: Exactly. Yeah. And I will say just like, I just… having a nearby, so you can watch for chin movement, that's been like one of the biggest factors too. And I always explain my students like, you know, your tongue moves with your chin, you know what I mean? So if you're moving your tongue, your chin's moving your, I'm sorry, if you're moving your chin, your tongue is moving with it. So you're like, oh, you know–

00:21:57 Hallie: I never thought of that.

00:21:58 Karen: Yeah. Just kind of, I guess just kind of explaining. I feel like a lot of it, too, is not only all those different techniques I mentioned, but sometimes just how you word it, like it's sometimes clicks. Like if you just say it a different way for a student and I like… if you're like, okay, I have tried explaining this so many times, that might be a good time to go to ChatGPT. Be like, what are some kid-friendly ways I can explain? You know what I mean? And sometimes they can give you like, you're like, oh, okay. Like I haven't tried that or haven't thought of that. So if you're kind of like running out of ideas, that might be one more.

00:22:35 Hallie: And it's also breaking the habit. It's almost like if you broke your arm and you had to start writing with your other hand, someone's going to have to teach you strategies on how to do it. But once someone explains it in a way, like someone had a method that would be easier, it also would click. Like, oh, if I just held my hand this way and like things that like you just wouldn't have thought of.

00:22:57 Karen: Exactly. Yeah. And that's what I say it's just like, sometimes it's how I hold my hand that makes sense for – or like that arm trick that like, I like had two students that they were like, oh, like once I showed them my class pants and, and use my arm, my whole arm is like the tongue and stuff. Like then they were like, oh, like, so, you know, it can really vary. But if you're feeling like out of ideas, that's one thing to try. I was also going to say, I don't know if, you know, it's maybe an idea for some of your students, but there's a website called Scene Speech, and they do have ultrasound tongue image videos for both Bunched R and Retroflex R. So that's one more option. Yeah. There was another one.

00:23:42 Hallie: I think Syracuse or there's definitely a school. It has like… it's almost like diagrams of the mouth or like–

00:23:50 Karen: Anatomically, like, like, they're like articulatory, like, it's like a–

00:23:53 Hallie: It's like a cartoon version or something. I don't know, something like that. I think it's like, if you Google, guys, like Syracuse, like speech clinic or an articulation, I think they have different like mouth…

00:24:04 Karen: Yes. Is that an app or is that a website?

00:24:08 Hallie: I think it's a website.

00:24:09 Karen: It's a website. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I can't – I know what you're talking about and I can't remember off the top of my head, but yes, that is another one.

00:24:16 Hallie: I knew it wasn't NYU, but I want to say it was Syracuse possibly. Another school in New York.

00:24:22 Karen: Yes. And just like one other thing, this is so random and probably won't be that helpful, but I went to Five Below like last spring and they had like a tongue. Like a– it had little like beads inside it. Like it was like a little squishy gel tongue. So I got that. Cause I was like, Oh, like here's one more.

00:24:44 Hallie: Squishies are all the rage. So, Hey, you know, why not? If you can't beat them, join them. Right?

00:24:48 Karen: So maybe you can find one. I don't know, but that's like one other way. Of course you can always use like Play-Doh, too, to kind of model a tongue.

00:24:56 Hallie: Every SLP is like turning their car around to go to Five Below.

00:24:58 Karen: Yeah, I do. I do love Five Below. I am obsessed. But that's mostly like, we don't, I don't like, we had a Target and then it closed. So, but anyways, Five Below is great because you can get some cool stuff there, like a basketball hoop.

00:25:14 Hallie: So fun. I love it. Yeah. What advice would you give to an SLP who's like, you know, I don't know how to address this R when it's in a mixed group. What would you say to them?

00:25:25 Karen: Okay. Yeah. That can be the challenge. I feel like I do try and put my R kids together when possible. And if that's not possible, I do try and do at least our TIC kids together, but sometimes that's not even possible. And then I just feel like you have to give yourself a little bit of grace and, you know, sometimes maybe progress is just a little bit slower, you know, but yeah, I do – like, for instance, sometimes the teachers will be like, okay, you can take them at this timeframe only. And so then you can only pull, there's like two kids and they just, their goals just totally don't match. Then like at that point, I kind of like, we just have to stop. They have to be quiet for the other kid. And then we take a turn at a game. You know, I just, we just kind of like have to go over the rules and stuff beforehand, but yeah.

00:26:14 Hallie: I've been creative and asked permission, like, say like period one started at 8:30 classes, but the school started at 8:15. I was like, can I just steal them two days – like if they were a one day a week kid, I was like, can I send them twice for like 15 minutes instead before everyone starts? Like, can I get them like some sort of, like by themselves somehow? Like I've made some deals with the devil sometimes.

00:26:40 Karen: Yeah. Sometimes you got to. Yeah, exactly. Oh, man. Yeah. That's the thing. So sometimes, and like I said, sometimes, especially for those kids, like if they are happy to be seen in groups like that, then if you can split it up to shorter times more frequently, yeah, I can…

00:26:56 Hallie: Get creative. 

00:26:57 Karen: Get creative. Yeah. It's tough. It's tough. Scheduling is so tough. Yeah.

00:27:02 Hallie: Since we have a lot of new SLPs, you know, new CFs starting this new school year that might not have had experience working on vocalic R, what advice would you give to someone who is brand new or new to the schools or new to, in our case, that's just not feeling confident?

00:27:18 Karen: I really would recommend checking out that CEU course that I mentioned before. I just, I feel like don't hesitate just to try taking some CEU courses. I know that there's some really great YouTube videos about R. If you want to watch, I know, I think, Peachie Speechie has some R videos. Oh, my gosh. Rocking the R. I think she's got just like a real quick little video of the retroflex R.

00:27:43 Hallie: Definitely showing the Peachie Speechie ones to my R kids. And like, I was, especially like when COVID times when we were virtual, like, like definitely, like use it to your advantage.

00:27:52 Karen: Yeah. You know, If you want to see that R modeling, I did put up a bunch of R versus retroflex R video on YouTube. I'm like so terrible at updating my YouTube. So I think I haven't uploaded a video in like three years, but I do have an R video on there. It's there. You can have it. But like, yeah, there's definitely some SLP content on YouTube that I think is really helpful that you can start with. Yeah. Check out some CEU courses. 

00:28:20 Karen: And just realizing that it's… it really… I feel like it just, it does take some time. Be patient with yourself too and give yourself some, some grace because it's like, I feel like you'll, you'll get there. It just takes a little bit of time to kind of figure out, okay, how do I model this? How do I explain this? I mean, that's… those are like the biggest part to the battle. And then just be like, it's not always, you know, it's sometimes just like I've had kids where I've been like, okay, I explained it like four different ways or I showed them five different things and I'm like, they didn't get it. But then they come back the next time. And then it's like, you know what I mean? Something clicked.

00:28:52 Hallie: You might not. You might not see the progress each day, but over time you'll see it. Like it's all compounding together. Like it just, it's going to click and it's going to get there. It's just like. If it was going to be a fast fix, they wouldn't need us.

00:29:11 Karen: That's exactly right. That is exactly right. So yeah, give yourself some time, do some online research and yeah, just try some of those different strategies. Those ones have been helpful for me, but hopefully, they work for someone else.

00:29:25 Hallie: Those are amazing. Karen, where can everyone learn more about you and everything you have to offer?

00:29:30 Karen: Okay. So I have a website, which is thepedispeechie.com and I do have some R articles on there. If people want to like go to my website and check out. I've got some articles on eliciting retroflex R and bunched R versus retroflex R and all of that. So I've got some more content there. I do have a Teachers Pay Teachers store under the Pedi Speechie and I do have an R program on there, and it does follow that one CEU course that I talked about. If anyone wants to check that out, I'm also on Instagram and a little bit on TikTok. I dabble. 

00:30:04 Hallie: I love it.

00:30:05 Karen: I dabble, but yeah. I feel like my biggest thing though… lately has been my blog. So I do try and keep that updated.

00:30:14 Hallie: Awesome. Awesome. Everyone definitely check her out, go check out all of her R resources cause clearly she knows her thing when it comes to the R sound. So I always end my episodes with a joke because jokes build rapport and it is fun. So I was trying to find one that had some R's in it. What did the traffic light say to the car? It was a car. There was R there.

00:30:38 Karen: Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I'm so bad at jokes.

00:30:41 Hallie: Don't look now I'm changing. 

00:30:43 Karen: Oh, Oh, I like that. All right. Very good. 

00:30:48 Hallie: The car, I found an R. I was trying to find a word, a joke, bombarded.

00:30:53 Karen: That's good. I knew I like knew you're going to ask me a joke. And I also know that I'm terrible at answering jokes. So it's like–

00:30:58 Hallie: And I don't write any of them either. I find online joke books. My children give me their joke books or ChatGPT. That one was a ChatGPT.

00:31:05 Karen: Okay. All right. All right.

00:31:07 Hallie: You can ask Chat, like, hey, give me some jokes with the R sound.

00:31:10 Karen: And it helps. Help prepare me.

00:31:12 Hallie: It does. It works. So thank you, Karen, so, so, so, so much. Everyone go to go check her out on Instagram, on TikTok, her blog, her TPT store, everything. They'll have all the links to all the things in the show notes. And until next week, everyone. Stay out of trouble.

00:31:31 Hallie: Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of SLP Coffee Talk. It means the world to me that you're tuning in each and every week and getting the jolt of inspiration you need. You can find all of the links and information mentioned in this episode at my website, speechtimefun.com. Don't forget to follow the show. So you don't miss any future episodes. And while you're there, it would mean the world to me if you would take a few seconds and leave me an honest review. See you next week with another episode full of fun and inspiration from one SLP to another. Have fun, guys. 

00:32:12 Hallie: Hey there, SLP friends. It is Hallie, here popping in with the best news ever. My new book Secondary SLP Roadmap is officially available. If you've ever wished for a clear practical guide for working with middle and high school students, this is it. It is packed with real stories, ready to use strategies and tools you can use right away. Grab your copy. Now check the link in the show notes or search Secondary SLP Roadmap on Amazon. And then of course, please do me a favor when you are reading it, snap a picture and tag me on Instagram at @speechtimefun. I love seeing where you're diving in the speech room, the couch, waiting in a doctor's waiting room, all the places. All right, ready? Go grab your copy and let's make secondary speech feel doable and  fun.

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